Tate Brothers - Round 2

Hades said:
In the UK suicide rates have been fairly static across both men and women. Men massively higher though.

www.statista.com

Suicide rate in England & Wales by gender 2000-2022 | Statista

The annual suicide rate in England and Wales is around three times higher among men compared to women.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
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Grim, but thanks.

Looks reasonably stable for women, which I was quite surprised by.

I guess my next question will be, is this something that is just observed in the UK, western nations or mirrored across other cultures too and then is there something we can learn from that? Will put it on my 'look into' list.
 
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Fubsy said:
Grim, but thanks.

Looks reasonably stable for women, which I was quite surprised by.

I guess my next question will be, is this something that is just observed in the UK, western nations or mirrored across other cultures too and then is there something we can learn from that? Will put it on my 'look into' list.
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I don't have the figures to hand so am just guessing. But I would be surprised if they were vastly different across the western nations. I have heard that women attempt suicide at about the same rate as men, but men are more "successful" (poor choice of words there). When they try it, they more often mean it.

EDIT: Wikipedia has a table showing global ratios but not trends. It shows most of the world has a disparity with men commiting suicide far more frequently than men. Interestingly in the western world there is a significantly bigger disparity. It is heartbreaking that no-one seems to be interested in why this is happening (I have my own theories). If the ratio was reversed then I suspect there would be big programmes to understand and address it.

en.wikipedia.org

Gender differences in suicide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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When it comes to men's suicide rates no body cares, let's be honest. That's why it keeps on rising. This has been talked about across the world over years but nothing has changed. Why? Because its men, we are the disposable gender. The world doesn't care about men's issues. That's why we have more men living on the streets compared to women. Women always have that life line by default because they are always protected no matter what.

The only time anyone takes notice of mens issues, if they are a threat to other women or children. Thread to themselves..or other men. No, they can kill each other or sit in the corner and die.

That's the uncomfortable truth.

If what Tate talked about had nothing to do with women or didn't mention women at all. Then he wouldn't be getting any coverage.
 
malachi said:
When it comes to men's suicide rates no body cares, let's be honest. That's why it keeps on rising. This has been talked about across the world over years but nothing has changed. Why? Because its men, we are the disposable gender. The world doesn't care about men's issues. That's why we have more men living on the streets compared to women. Women always have that life line by default because they are always protected no matter what.

The only time anyone takes notice of mens issues, if they are a threat to other women or children. Thread to themselves..or other men. No, they can kill each other or sit in the corner and die.

That's the uncomfortable truth.

If what Tate talked about had nothing to do with women or didn't mention women at all. Then he wouldn't be getting any coverage.
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This is a total load of tripe. Men are not seen as the disposable gender, nor are their issues ignored. People who work in mental health have indicated that male suicide rates are higher because "real men" are taught to suck it up and get on with it. I know people who work in mental health and it seems middle aged males with financial problems are the most suicidal, because they were from a generation who were taught to "be the provider". So when financial problems hit, they feel like they are a failiure, especially if their wife becomes the main provider. A large part of their problem as mental health professionals, is deprogramming a lot of men who think "a man and must be a strong alpha, or he is a loser".

I know a few middle aged or older men who developed mental health issues that are well looked after by the system and have never been seen as disposable.

It is the same in many walks of life, as minority rights are corrected, the "alphas" start to believe their rights are under attack.
 
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ICDP said:
This is a total load of tripe. Men are not seen as the disposable gender, nor are their issues ignored.
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Yeah really!?!!? When wars happen, who goes to fight them men or women!?!!? Which gender is Putin sending to die? Because his solution is "We can just throw bodies at the problem"

Don't be ignorant. Just because we are men doesn't mean we are not human. Everyone can suffer from the same mental issues but society prioritises women over men. Thats a fact!

Yes, most middle aged males with financial problems are the most suicidal, because they were from a generation who were taught to "be the provider" but we are also seen plenty of men under 30 ending their lives also on the increase. Its not just one generation with this problem.
 
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Another load of tripe, this is not Russia and we are not being asked to go to war, so that is not remotely on the minds of any male in the UK.

You do know the alpha male provider nonsense is still a thing right? The very reason for this thread is because those Tate ******* are teaching younger males to be "alpha". Then reality bites hard that being an alpha is not seen as "cool", or that they are not in fact "alpha". I am in my mid 50s and every "alpha" male I have ever know has one thing in common, they are total *******.
 
unwashed potato! said:
But then if people are reportedly more open now than they used to be, are people more suicidal now, or are they just admitting it more now?

And are suicides up or just feeling suicidal? Is that covid bumping that? Is that as a percentage or just the numbers that feel it etc etc.
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In my experience 20 years ago if I wanted to get something off my chest to a mate I found it very difficult and probably wrongly assumed they would take the ****, also perhaps they wouldn't have known how to respond. Strangely enough I would find it easier to talk about now even though I'm in the 45-65 bracket.

I'm not even sure if men of any age are more open about it now, just that it gets talked about.

There was actually a bit of decrease during covid.

Not quite as I thought, didn't realise it was so high in the 80's.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula.../suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2021registrations


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unwashed potato! said:
But then if people are reportedly more open now than they used to be, are people more suicidal now, or are they just admitting it more now?

And are suicides up or just feeling suicidal? Is that covid bumping that? Is that as a percentage or just the numbers that feel it etc etc.
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Are men more open? Is there anything to say we are?
 
Begbie said:
Are men more open? Is there anything to say we are?
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It is defiantly improving but old habits die hard. Its a very recent thing that men should be open with their feelings and not just bury it. Its not an easy thing to do, I myself am not good at talking about things when they are bad, I just tend to try and put on a brave face and get on with it but I've always been happy to talk to mates about any problems they might have. This isn't something that gets fixed overnight, its probably going to be a generational thing and hopefully in another 25 years men will be better at dealing with this.
 
Begbie said:
Are men more open? Is there anything to say we are?
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Who knows. Further showing my point. To be like "men these days do this more than they used to"

How anyone can really use that as a reason for anything I don't know, given none of us have lived more than one life. None of us have been in our 20s twice.

So my feeling is when making an argument why something iz happening, better to use just current experience rather than try and compare it to a past we know nothing about.

An 80 year old can't possibly comment how it is for kids these days, just as a kid can't comment how it was for the 80 year old when they were 16.
 
imtoooldforthis said:
Why are we even talking about this stuff ?

He appeals to some young men because he says outrageous edgy stuff, stop with this hilarious delusional nonsense about how men need masculine role models and that’s the reason why he is so popular.

He’s popular because lots of kids and teenagers are edgy little bellends

The end
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I don't think Chris is a kid or teenager
 
imtoooldforthis said:
Why are we even talking about this stuff ?

He appeals to some young men because he says outrageous edgy stuff, stop with this hilarious delusional nonsense about how men need masculine role models and that’s the reason why he is so popular.

He’s popular because lots of kids and teenagers are edgy little bellends

The end
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Matrix dweller right here
 
Should probably clarify i don't think the 'some young men need masculine role models' bit is necessarily ********, im sure that is true for some people.... but it's got very little to do with Andrew Tates popularity hence why every other alpha male self help bro falls flat relative to him.

Yonguns find him edgy and amusing, combine that with parents, media and teachers telling them he's bad and it's very easy to see why he's popular.
 
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mattx4 said:
Here's an example of one, look what exposure to Tate does to teenagers

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My god. There's a user in the Elon thread that I swear, this is exactly as I imagine him to be, as he talks about how other users are skinny armed, weak minded, non alpha, while himself simping over Elon like he is going to be bought a horse for doing so.

In the end you just have to feel sorry for those people and be grateful that life hasn't led yourself to be that way too.
 
mattx4 said:
Here's an example of one, look what exposure to Tate does to teenagers

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To be fair, that kid appears to have some "difficulties," unless he's putting on an act.

The ones you need to worry about are the young men taking Tate's advice on board and being far more subtle or secretive about it. As far as I'm aware, Tate has never told men to openly tell other people they're the "alpha". In fact, if you do that, you clearly aren't the domineering force in the room, quite the opposite.
 
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