Tesla
- Thread starter blackmonday
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I believe that technically the performance and the range are inextricably linked. They both come from having a high Wh battery pack. It's probably not possible to have one but not the other (unless you hobble the acceleration, a la the 'chill mode' of the Model S).
Obviously this feels odd and counter-intuitive (as in theory I agree with you). And then you've got the point that many drivers on the road probably shouldnt be let loose in a car with 0-60 in say 5 seconds!
electric is just fast acceleration so its a bonus, you will also have significant motor breaking.
Man of Honour
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Quite the game changer. I still find the sound lacking, but what a car. I am almost more impressed by a viable range than the performance.
It makes me think about years ahead from now. There could be a lot of very powerful cars on the road - or if they dumb down the speed then perhaps with much greater range than current fossil fuel cars.
It makes me think about years ahead from now. There could be a lot of very powerful cars on the road - or if they dumb down the speed then perhaps with much greater range than current fossil fuel cars.
I believe that technically the performance and the range are inextricably linked. They both come from having a high Wh battery pack. It's probably not possible to have one but not the other (unless you hobble the acceleration, a la the 'chill mode' of the Model S).
Obviously this feels odd and counter-intuitive (as in theory I agree with you). And then you've got the point that many drivers on the road probably shouldnt be let loose in a car with 0-60 in say 5 seconds!
The 4wd version has different gearing at the two ends of the car, so when it is cruising it switches between the motors depending on which is the most suitable for the current situation.
It would probably be a huge investment to convert a fleet to electric. 400-500 miles between charging stations would put a lot of strain on route planning.
Man of Honour
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I'd have a Tesla no problem. I wouldn't buy the 200K one though. That said I probably wouldn't pay 200k for any car no matter how much money I had in the bank.
Based, on normal replacement cycles it wouldnt take that long at all.
Are you saying that most trucks do 500+ mile routes as their main journeys?
If you watch the presentation (which it seems you havent) you'll see Elon's figures, which relate to the US. 80% of truck journeys are less than 250 miles. That means you can get there and back on one charge. With some investment trucks would be able to charge while loading/unloading, saving more time (it takes a long time to actually fill a diesel tank on a truck). Elon is planning MegaChargers to recharge the trucks in a reasonable time.
And again, if you watch the presentation, you'll see that 500 miles is a 'worst case' e.g. assumes fully laden, etc. (albeit cold weather may reduce it a little).
Are they waiting for the battery tech to catch up before production? And where are these batteries coming from.
A lorry needs a battery with huge amount of cooling to regen all that energy when breaking.
Also 0-60 in 1.9 seconds is hard to believe on road Tyres. Many cars are not power limited and cannot do that.
Seems a good way to keep cash coming in though and hide the fact Tesla don’t make a profit from cars yet
A lorry needs a battery with huge amount of cooling to regen all that energy when breaking.
Also 0-60 in 1.9 seconds is hard to believe on road Tyres. Many cars are not power limited and cannot do that.
Seems a good way to keep cash coming in though and hide the fact Tesla don’t make a profit from cars yet
My Dad was a Tanker driver and started his own firm. I'm saying it's a complicated business.
Plan a return trip to Turkey based on a 500 mile charge. Then consider that for a fleet of tens or hundreds of units and trailers.
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Caporegime
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Tesla make the batteries themselves.
Have you considered that it might be possible to charge en-route? Would the driver be able to drive all the way to Turkey without a break? I dont think so.
Bold indeed, I think the reality will not match his expectations.
Significant motor braking on a car is one thing, on a heavy vehicle it’s quite another, were it such a better solution something akin to it would already have been designed applied to existing HGV braking systems I think, even on your modern trucks it’s easy to overheat your brakes when fully freighted on hilly routes - I frequently travel through the Peak District national park at full weight and it’s not uncommon to have my brake overheating warning light on after a few miles and that’s not by driving aggressively, it’s simply down to the physics required to stop such a large mass traveling at - relatively low - speed.
Tesla claim 0-60 of 20 seconds at their trucks max weight, something I think they’ll revise down if not through the reality of achieving this then through the safety aspect, having such a large vehicle with significantly faster acceleration is imo going to end badly, a truck does a lot of damage in an accident and it is its weight and kinetic energy that causes it, slow and smooth is the way you keep an HGV stable, any trucker will tell you that.
They also claim the lower centre of gravity of the unit helps reduce the centre of gravity and therefore will make them more stable, conveniently ignoring that the vast majority of HGV rollovers are caused by the load not the tractor unit and that load still has a high centre of gravity through the design requirement of the trailer - large wheels to cope with the weight, thick chassis beams to cope with the weight of the load sat in top of the trailer bed, I can imagine higher management in companies such as Volvo/Scania reading their press release thinking to themselves “WTF is this guy on?” !
I also find it interesting and curious that they quote significant operating savings without quoting a retail price...
I doubt the haulage industry is going to be queuing up for these just yet and given Tesla’s current woes of car supply’s I would expect it’ll be the likes of Scania / Volvo with their established production and distribution chains that eventually most likely come up with a workable solution, and suspect once electric hgv’s are the norm as they undoubtedly will become it’ll be the current big players in the truck building industry that captures the market, not Tesla.
Which existing hybrid trucks would that have been applied to?
Dont forget that the cab will be much much heavier than for a diesel truck, so it should make a difference.
That's how Tesla has always worked, because in reality its total cost that's important.
Yes - this is what Tesla aim to do - kickstart the rest of the industry and show them what can be done.
There's plenty that Tesla arent getting right on the production side, but one thing is clear: their vehicles have always performed as promised from a technical standpoint (range, 0-60 etc, falcon-wing doors not so much, but they are more of a gimmick anyway). I dont see why the truck would be any different.
Well it's all what iffs, but you must be able see the limitations of electric and the extra layers of complexity that brings to commercial vehicle and business.
I can see change. I can see people who need to think in different ways from how they do now. There is a lot of change coming, and people need to be open to that.
There's also a lot of simplicity coming too - from the complexity in refining and transporting oil, to minimal servicing of EVs etc. The new world will be simpler, not more complex. It's just different.
You need to look at the businesses which are embracing EVs - such as Deutsche Post who have developed their own! You would not have seen that with an ICE vehicle. The reason? They're simpler.
P.s. I dont see recharging an EV as a big "what if"!
The Volvo FE hybrid for example, it does not use this for braking it used it for battery regeneration and conventional brakes.
Think you mean the cab of the electric truck will surely be lighter? (given no 14litre diesel + gearbox) - but, as I say, rollovers are caused by the trailer (i.e. the load) not the tractor unit.
I doubt they have factored in the total cost of charging infrastructure required to make this viable to the haulage industry, initial costs to put this in place is going to be huge.
The HGV industry has and continues to spend billions on making trucks more efficient and exploring new power trains (Volvo especially) I very much doubt the board of Volkswagen for example (who own MAN and Scania) have suddenly woken up to this because of Tesla....
They are up against companies such as Volvo and Scania who have had heavy haulage sewn up for years through technological progress and proven ability of their products, Tesla will need to up their game considerably before they are taken seriously as either a threat by the manufacturers or a viable option for the industry, rather than announcing new ideas on the horizon maybe putting the existing house in order first would be the way they should be heading?
You been in a Tesla dealership and see the chassis and running gear without the cabin on top? It's ridiculous how simple they are compared to ICE.
Was excited to hear about the Roadster, not excited to hear about the price tag.
Would have been nice to get a small, light(ish) roadster with around 300 mile range and ~250 BHP, and an affordable price tag.
Was excited to hear about the Roadster, not excited to hear about the price tag.
Would have been nice to get a small, light(ish) roadster with around 300 mile range and ~250 BHP, and an affordable price tag.
Lighter? How much do you think the batteries for an 80,000lb gross weight will weigh?
Sorry, I'm confused. It has battery regeneration but does not use it for braking? How does that work?
Yes they are. Doesnt mean it wont be worth it in the long run.
Perhaps not, but if they announce a truck with 50% of the capability of Tesla's then it wont be a good PR story will it?
Yes, it's called disruption.
That is more than a fair criticism. They really do need to get the Model 3 sorted first.