TF2 Heavy Update

NeilFawcett said:
Critical hits are fun...

But it's a shame they're not more tactical. ie: When you've earned critical hits (ie: your next shot(s) are going to be critical) it's a shame you don't know this. So you can save that shot or know it's a critical one.

Or, a count down on your screen so you know when your critical hits are going to go active. So you can try and be in the right place at the right time...

Plain random = not very skillful...
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Crits arent fun :P and the reason for that is what youve just explained...



Crits have to be random otherwise it makes unbalanced teams even more unbalanced. If you make the people who survive and kill more have crits then youre just helping them kill even more.

Crits should just be left out altogether and that way everyone has equal chances of killing someone providing they dont suck :P

Hopefully none of the other Heavy weapons will have crit related stuff :P but itll be interesting to see what other classes get crit weapons later.

My Demo with more crits is bound to be fun >.> lol
 
Are you insane, the thing that makes TF2 great for me is randomness. Sure, in MOST cases a pyro will melt a soldier/demo/heavy up close, but on the off chance of getting a critical...they would kill the pyro. This allows different gameplay and adds a new dimension to it, rather than predictable gameplay that CS:S provided. Don't get me wrong, they are two seperate games and I spent most of my online time playing CS:S, but now I like TF2 for it's unpredictable gameplay (to some degree).

There will be times when I am a scout and the only way I can get out of a situation is a critical mellee for example... if I get it and kill them, it definately leads to a "WTF" moment and leaves you smiling :)

However, I am bias as I never played TFC?
 
Phal said:
I guess Valve seem to really like their crits :/ every new weapon update for the classes so far has had 1 weapon which involves crits :|


Kritzkrieg for Medics
Backburner for Pyros
Boxing Gloves for Heavy
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It is a concern... ie: Things just getting too random... ie: 7-8 players in an area could mean one of them becoming 'critical' every few seconds due to some if/but/when condition. So there's always some sort of critical fire coming from somewhere, rather than a more level playing field...
 
I like the crits personally, sure they can be annoying from time to time, but you more often then not hear / see them coming, well except for pyros which can be obsesively annoying, but if they are close enough to you a good pyro will usually kill you without the crits, unless medics, etc...

Personally I would like armour to be reintroduced as well, maybe with a movement penalty (comedy armour for the win, baseball helmet for the scout, etc...), but it would probably overcomplicate things in the long run.
 
Booner! said:
Are you insane, the thing that makes TF2 great for me is randomness. Sure, in MOST cases a pyro will melt a soldier/demo/heavy up close, but on the off chance of getting a critical...they would kill the pyro. This allows different gameplay and adds a new dimension to it, rather than predictable gameplay that CS:S provided. Don't get me wrong, they are two seperate games and I spent most of my online time playing CS:S, but now I like TF2 for it's unpredictable gameplay (to some degree).
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Critical hits are fun, but the concern is if they start happening too often so the game starts heading towards the toss of a coin, rather than considered gameplay...

If Valve keep adding more and reasons for critical hits to come into play, then we'll see more and more critical hits, and more and more people being killed because of random event 1, 2 and 3 occurring... Rather than them being killed by better play...

I think that's what people are worried about...
 
I can see your point and I know that many players will want to play competitively. However, I have totally changed my approach to gaming since I moved from CS:S to TF2, it is aimed for more casual gaming where you drop in and drop out. This means that the average player won't mind coming 5th or 6th and isn't tracking stats.

The solution is for valve to allow admins the option to turn off criticals, which would allow some classes to be better than others and allow dedicated players aiming for high stats to specialise in the game. However, I think I speak on behalf of the majority that will stay within unconstricted servers and just enjoy the game. You are most likely a hardcore gamer that demands a more linear online gaming experience that you can hone your skills and get better, rather than let a noob critical you and score higher.

That's the way I see it, nobody is wrong here :)
 
You can already turn off the crits and most if not all leagues are now played with crits off.

I liked crits when I first played TF2 but then more you play it, the most you realise that you get killed by people who wouldnt normally kill you if it wasnt for some lucky crit.

I mean whats the point of getting good at a game if randomness owns j00!
 
^ again, I disagree. I found CS:S very hard to get into at first and disliked it for about a year then went back into it. It was a steep learning curve as everyone was amazing at AWP and M4 etc.

By having lots of maps, crits, various weapons, various classes and pickups it adds a spice of variety to the game which allow novices to have fun as well as amazing players. I think this is an attraction to this game which keeps it fresh.
 
As long as you can move the mouse to put crosshairs on a target, none of these games are particularly hard to get into :/

Games shouldnt have to be dumbed down for people to enjoy them. If you wanna play with a bunch of people who arent that good then you should find a server with players like that! The skill level does vary a lot between servers.

Weapons or features which give temporary crits for a few seconds or whatever I dont mind so much since you know when to expect the extra damage then but the random crit chance that everyone has is lame :/

Nobody ever complained about the Quad Damage in Quake :/ because everyone knew where it was and everyone knew when someone had it.



I am slightly worried that by the time all the classes have their unlockable weapons that everyone will be able to crit everyone else to death :/
 
Phal said:
but no armour and crit damage is a flaw imo :(
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thats why we have medics

[although i know medics will decrease once the heavy update comes out]

think of yourself as a playtester - balancing updates will be released to make weapons equal
chances are that the updates we recieve will sort it out

i payed £17 for my orange box
that means £3.40 per game

so the inclusion of all these updates etc for a game that cost me less than a pack of fags really isnt worth complaining about
 
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Its not an amazing amount of support really :/

Like someone already mentioned, this is just development on the fly. Steam allows them to release multiple updates easily so theyre taking advantage of that and releasing small updates regularly rather than one big patch after 6 months or something.

Its probably making them money because each update generates a lot of hype so it probably gets them new customers at the same time as keeping existing players interested.

Im also not a huge fan of the fact that TF2 games often revolve around who has the most medics :/ and who gets to use their uber at the best time.

Its good that theyre doing updates but Im kinda worried about the direction theyre going in with it. More and more crits seem to be coming in all the time... Im sure it wont be long before were playing instagib tf2 :|
 
Frapple said:
The amount of support you get for £4 is ridiculous, they must be loosing money somewhere!
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Nah, each time they release an update/free weekend they see a jump in sales, not to mention it builds a fanbase (not that Valve needs that). People are going to buy your next game if they know you're going to treat them right, and I'd imagine we'll see some awesome support for Left4Dead also.

Biggest problem in TF2 is probably crits and Demoman to be honest.
 
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It depends on how you class 'support'

If you mean long term survivial of a game through constant updates, a userbase who can talk (almost) directly with the developers and a company that doesnt sell out for the money, then yes.

If you mean support for problems, like fixing the dam glitches in gates and such, then maybe not.

But either way, im a fully subscribed Valve fanboy. I like the company, I like their attitude, I like there games. The only slight issues are their prices and their timekeeping, but ill forgive them.

Back on topic, the KGB is a bit.... meh. A mele with more crits and slower hit rate... kinda obvious, and will most definately be used as a replacement for the standard gloves rather than an alternative (in public play).
 
Phal said:
I am slightly worried that by the time all the classes have their unlockable weapons that everyone will be able to crit everyone else to death :/
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I concur... You'll get herds of classes running at you from the front who get critical hit bonuses, and herds of classes running at you from the rear (pyro) who get critical hit bonuses, and herds of classes jumping at you from above who get critical hit bonuses...
 
To be fair the crit weapons do have their drawbacks, the pyro loose their airblast (most awesome tool ever if the person knows how to use it) / axetinguisher requires melee and does less damage than normal axe if your not on fire and medics loose their ubercharge (practically hobbles the class unless you are working together properly).

The new heavy crit weapon is slow and requires melee (how often do you see heavies meleeing?), what we are going to see is a bunch of people who get cut down as they try to get their melee crits bonus.
 
^ Exactly, it turns the tables slightly as everyone working to get new achievements and using new weapons will end up being killed in various, embarrassing ways. For example, I died so much running around as a medic trying to melee people!
 
Of course there will be plenty of retards who die :p but its the same with every class patch! You get a bunch of people who have never played the class trying to do stupid things.


The good players know how to use their weapons! A Heavy with a medic isnt exactly easy to kill so now hes gonna run at you swinging his fists around till he hits something and next thing you know youll have 3 seconds of Minigun crits flying your way or 3-4 crit shotgun shots in the face :(
 
How often do medics actually use kritzkrieg? I've generally found the normal uber far more effective. The Pyro backburner isn't nearly as good as the normal flamethrower since the removal of the health bonus. And the amount of axtinguisher kills I've seen is comparable to normal axe kills (i.e. not many). Honestly I find it hard to see how these introductions are imbalancing the game or reducing the skill requirements.
 
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