*** The 2016 Gym Rats Thread ***

[Somnambulist]

I'm not putting down his achievements. I just naively thought he was natural. As you say he was and is phenomenally strong without - I just hadn't realised.

I'm not suggesting it's a magic potion - it still requires extremely hard training, and good diet etc... I guess if he wants to compete in a different field he has to level the playing field and I totally get that, and that's perfectly fine.

I just hadn't clicked or realised his new journey. I wish him all the best, and will continue to follow his progress and be amazed by his lifts.

I just personally think it's a shame as he did so well naturally. I know I will never be that strong or be a world class lifter, but I'm happy to accept that and not willing to compromise on that, each to their own and all that jazz.

I think the thing for Tom is, to make more progress he needed to put on more mass and move up a weight class, but doing so meant being lumped in with some exceptionally, disgustingly good lifters. He'd still be an amazingly strong guy at 100kg, but I personally don't think those records, presuming he's intent on breaking them - and I think he mentioned he did want to in a comment somewhere on YouTube or Reddit - would be reachable without assistance because they were set by freaks of nature that were or are assisted themselves. He basically needs to get stacked somewhere around 110kg and be able to cut a tiny bit and drop water to make 100kg for comps - this will probably require the kind of fat-free mass at his height/that weight that isn't possible without a little help.

 

[Freefaller]

I think the thing for Tom is, to make more progress he needed to put on more mass and move up a weight class, but doing so meant being lumped in with some exceptionally, disgustingly good lifters. He'd still be an amazingly strong guy at 100kg, but I personally don't think those records, presuming he's intent on breaking them - and I think he mentioned he did want to in a comment somewhere on YouTube or Reddit - would be reachable without assistance because they were set by freaks of nature that were or are assisted themselves. He basically needs to get stacked somewhere around 110kg and be able to cut a tiny bit and drop water to make 100kg for comps - this will probably require the kind of fat-free mass at his height/that weight that isn't possible without a little help.

I appreciate that, but personally I'd be happy that I'd be among the strongest, even if I don't get to be THE strongest. Still he's made his choice and as you say he's now going to compete with monsters he might as well join 'em. I'd have been happy with being in top 10 of my weight class in a tested federation. But I guess we all give in to egos from time to time.

 

[MoNkeE]

See this nonsense I hate about the fitness industry, how we demonise steroid users "we all give in to egos sometimes" - how dare he not want to simply be "among the best", how dare he strive for excellence, how dare he be extremely honest about his choices and do so in the best way possible.

Was down the gym a few months back, talking to an older guy who was making this painstaking point about how he competes naturally. In reference to my mate down the gym who came up in conversation who is absolutely huge, he says "yeah, but cmon, he's clearly on steroids... Isn't he?". Well duh. He also comes down here and trains harder than you do every day. He will also choose to never stand on stage beside you.

And I know you'll come back and say each to their own etc etc, but every time you've mentioned his steroid use, in each paragraph you touch on it, it ends with a negative inflection as if he's personally upset you. Guy is in a different game to all of us, this is simply what he needs to do to compete there.

 

[Freefaller]

Of course. But am I not allowed to have an opinion? I just feel a bit disappointed by my naivety that I thought he was natural. It was more of a public gasp, rather than trying to demonise his choice. I know I'm vocally anti drugs, which I have every right to be, but I was just genuinely surprised by this information.

I'm not going to praise people for using drugs am I though? Surely you can see why glamourising them is also equally obtuse? I agree I probably sound like a broken record, but hey it's a discussion forum

 

[mrthingyx]

Of course. But am I not allowed to have an opinion? I just feel a bit disappointed by my naivety that I thought he was natural. It was more of a public gasp, rather than trying to demonise his choice. I know I'm vocally anti drugs, which I have every right to be, but I was just genuinely surprised by this information.

I'm not going to praise people for using drugs am I though? Surely you can see why glamourising them is also equally obtuse? I agree I probably sound like a broken record, but hey it's a discussion forum

I agree - I think it is a shame that people feel the need to do this to be competitive, but so also understand why they consider it necessary. I would take a punt a couple of Internet-famous weightlifters are on the same track simply because they couldn't be truly competitive in the sport they loved.

I do not agree with their actions, but I am aware that the pressure to be the best or at least sufficiently competitive is enormous, particularly when it's what you want to do, and your livelihood is based on those sponsorship deals, etc.

I do think it is sad (in a way), but people are free to make their own choices...

 

[Freefaller]

Indeed. I guess I've (we've?) Never played any sport to such a high level where the pressure mounts to be be better and stronger etc... to be the best. I understand there must be a huge amount of pressure.

I guess I'm more interested in being there best I can be and be true to myself. If I was under pressure to be the best among my peers then I realise things could be different.

 

[Syla5]

FF you do know his switch over to the dark side is a relatively recent thing?

I believe but am not certain it was around September/October time last year judging by his last tested comp dates and also progression curve since, and the dating of some of his indirect answers to the people trying to indirectly ask the question.

From what I got following him, he found it extremely difficult to put on mass, moving from the 93kg to the 105kg class and I think he only ever hit 100kg fat! He also got royal fed up with being tested at every comp he went to just because he was Tom Martin. Not to say it wasn't valid decisions from the judges but still, annoying all the same.

That he has taken the path that he has I found surprising at first, but when you look at what he's aiming for, the likes of Edd Coan's and Dan Greens records, neither of whom were natural it doesn't surprise me that much.

 

[mrthingyx]

Indeed. I guess I've (we've?) Never played any sport to such a high level where the pressure mounts to be be better and stronger etc... to be the best. I understand there must be a huge amount of pressure.

I guess I'm more interested in being there best I can be and be true to myself. If I was under pressure to be the best among my peers then I realise things could be different.

Yup - I've never been on the cusp of biggest/strongest/shredded-est/etc. so it's somewhat academic...

 

[Freefaller]

FF you do know his switch over to the dark side is a relatively recent thing?

Yes. Hence why I uttered disppointment considering he's achieved so much naturally.

I believe but am not certain it was around September/October time last year judging by his last tested comp dates and also progression curve since, and the dating of some of his indirect answers to the people trying to indirectly ask the question.

From what I got following him, he found it extremely difficult to put on mass, moving from the 93kg to the 105kg class and I think he only ever hit 100kg fat! He also got royal fed up with being tested at every comp he went to just because he was Tom Martin. Not to say it wasn't valid decisions from the judges but still, annoying all the same.

I'm sure he's got his reasons. But he was still at the top of his game in his class, and probably would have carried on improving albeit slowly. However, it is such a competitive arena that I can understand the frustration. As I said, and I'll repeat, again, I'm not demonising him for his decision, he's free to do what he wants, I was just surprised, and personally disappointed to hear him going down this route - however, I DO understand why he's doing it.

That he has taken the path that he has I found surprising at first, but when you look at what he's aiming for, the likes of Edd Coan's and Dan Greens records, neither of whom were natural it doesn't surprise me that much.

Of course not, he has a target in mind and wants to level the playing field, fair play to him. And just because I'm anti gear, does not mean I do not appreciate the effort, training and natural ability that people have.

 

[Syla5]

I think part of the problem is that he was close to the top of his weight class natty, but being singled out for testing at every comp he went to, maybe some of his competitors weren't being singled out in the same manner..... tie that in to the current goings on with the drug scandals and all the cover ups in sports etc. Maybe his personal views were that the natty playing field wasn't level at all, but rather than switch to the dark side and lie about it and try and compete in tested fed, were the testing doesn't appear to be uniform, he switched and has been open about it (without saying so).

None of this is trying to counter your view or opinion, just provide a different insight that might limit the disappointment.

I would have been disappointed myself, if he had stayed in a tested fed and completely denied everything, but making the switch to untested made a clear statement.

Out of interest do strongmen disappoint you?

 

[Freefaller]

No because they're clearly not natural, though many are naturally gigantic (i.e. 6'6"+ and broad). And they don't pertain to be. They don't compete naturally, either. In Tom's case he was natural and decided to say "sod it, I'm going to the next stage".

I guess in a way he's proven himself mighty as a natural, so much so that he was constantly tested. So he's likely to dominate as a non-natural and I really hope he does, he's built up such awesome strength and power that all his exogenous help will only push that envelope further.

Look, I understand why Tom's doing it, I'm not actually stupid - I'm sure he was getting frustrated, and I'm sure the playing field wasn't fair, and it's even worse if you're singled out and "clean", especially if you have your doubts on other "natural" competitors. That's fine, I don't need you or anyone else to white knight Tom's decision. He's a professional on top of his game, and very good at what he does.

I will repeat again, I was just airing my surprise to the news. I can still be surprised whilst understanding why he's doing it.

I will continue to follow and support him as I find him inspirational - and nothing I'm saying takes away the effort, time, dedication and skill he has.

 

[reiyushin]

In a perfect world there'd be no PEDs but since there are and tests might not be 100% reliable then I'm pretty glad he's been honest about it.

I don't have an issue with those who are 'on' I have a real problem with those who cheat.

 

[tom_e]

No because they're clearly not natural, though many are naturally gigantic (i.e. 6'6"+ and broad). And they don't pertain to be. They don't compete naturally, either.

Don't be silly Terry Hollands has never encountered PED usage at WSM and fully believes a natural competitor can win it

(The rolleyes were at him for actually having the balls to come out with that crap)

 

[Syla5]

Look, I understand why Tom's doing it, I'm not actually stupid - I'm sure he was getting frustrated, and I'm sure the playing field wasn't fair, and it's even worse if you're singled out and "clean", especially if you have your doubts on other "natural" competitors. That's fine, I don't need you or anyone else to white knight Tom's decision. He's a professional on top of his game, and very good at what he does.

No white knighting anything, no stupid tags applied to you, I was merely fleshing out some of my thoughts and to use a Freefaller phrase.... this is a discussion forum after all.

I will repeat again, I was just airing my surprise to the news. I can still be surprised whilst understanding why he's doing it.

It was your disappointment that I was surprised at to be honest, not your surprise. I was surprised, but not disappointed. If he had BS'ed about his usage in a Simone Pandanattylieface way then sure, disappointed, but not this way, especially after recent IPF behaviour and wider Tested fed controversy.

 

[Steedie]

Simeon Panda isn't natty?

 

[Syla5]

Simeon Panda isn't natty?

Sorry bro I got bad news for you....

 

[Steedie]

Lawd, mind=blown...

notsrs

 

[Freefaller]

No white knighting anything, no stupid tags applied to you, I was merely fleshing out some of my thoughts and to use a Freefaller phrase.... this is a discussion forum after all.



It was your disappointment that I was surprised at to be honest, not your surprise. I was surprised, but not disappointed. If he had BS'ed about his usage in a Simone Pandanattylieface way then sure, disappointed, but not this way, especially after recent IPF behaviour and wider Tested fed controversy.

Well I still feel disappointed. Why is that strange? I guess there was a bit of hero worshipping from me, that a natural guy could be so phenomenal - well he still is phenomenal with what he has achieved naturally. I just feel it's giving in to the lowest common denominator that's all.

But as you and others have said, at least he's being upfront and honest about it, so kudos. And I'm excited to see how he will get on, he's a beast and irrespective of his dubious choice I'm still excited about it all. I just don't like that side of this sport - I find it vile and a little sad.

 

[Freefaller]

Don't be silly Terry Hollands has never encountered PED usage at WSM and fully believes a natural competitor can win it

(The rolleyes were at him for actually having the balls to come out with that crap)

I know it's a joke isn't it? I wish they'd just be honest about it.

 

[Syla5]

I know it's a joke isn't it? I wish they'd just be honest about it.

Agreed! don't say anything if you don't want to lie!