Soldato
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*** The 2017 Gym Rats Thread ***
- Thread starter mrthingyx
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Soldato
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Decided on attempting to run Smolov Jr on squat and bench simultaneously, I think I'll be alright, but if needed please hold me.
I'm going to hold off on doing too much assistance work.
6x6 squat at 97.5 tomorrow evening to get me started on squats.
6x6 bench at 55kg this morning (lol at my poverty bench)
I'm going to hold off on doing too much assistance work.
6x6 squat at 97.5 tomorrow evening to get me started on squats.
6x6 bench at 55kg this morning (lol at my poverty bench)
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Soldato
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Dibs on your PC. 
Man of Honour
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It's a matter of weighing up the costs/benefits. At best it amounts to spending your time on a sub-optimal programme, at worst you'll **** your **** up.
Firstly, any advanced programme should only really be done if your training age is also advanced (or close to it). There are a lot of adaptive demands placed on the system by these programmes, and if you're asking your body to go from 0-100 then you're asking for trouble.
Secondly, if your technique isn't VERY dialled in, you're again asking for trouble. This includes everything from obvious positional faults all the way down to the very subtle activation level stuff that you can't see.
Thirdly, you're definitely underestimating the amount of systemic fatigue that it's possible to generate with exercise. Doing these programmes one at a time is a lot more reasonable (especially if it's just for bench), but both together introduces a lot of stress. This is especially true if you try maintain a reasonable volume of pulling exercises to minimise the imbalance through your shoulders.
Lastly, there are simply better ways of achieving your goals here. Assuming that you're an approximately intermediate level lifter, most of your training experience will be from 5x5 stuff. Most of the benefits of Smolov are derived from the increase in frequency and volume with varying rep ranges, so why not just do a programme with slightly more of these things? What people possibly don't talk about with Smolov is what happens after you've finished, tested, and got a new max (did you know that full Smolov as you know it is only part of a longer programme that sensibly peaks you?). Assuming you get a nice pb, you're going to have to be doing similar levels of volume/frequency in order to hold on to those kinds of numbers. Why? Because those adaptations were a direct response to those stimuli, and removing the stimuli means that your body doesn't need the adaptations any more. This is probably not what your beaten up body wants to hear.
My advice would be to do them one at a time if you really want to just try them. There is being a sadist and working your ass off (which is important and I respect), and then there is just doing stupid stuff that sets you back in the long run.
Yes, this is very simple.
Don't try to arch your back when you're doing anything.
You should be aiming for a neutral and braced spine that uses ALL of your core to resist motion. Arching massively biases use of the erectors, and the position precludes proper engagement of the rest of your core.
Edit:
Oh.
Oh...
I have never seen a beginner attempt Smolov, my mind is blown.
There really are no shortcuts to getting strong, skipping ahead to doing advanced programmes and using advanced loading protocols is not a valid plan. You might find that increase your numbers from effectively practising the movements more, and also the low loads might protect you from negative outcomes to a certain extent... Or not.
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Man of Honour
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ice is back! 
Soldato
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Thanks for the detailed response.
I'll keep you posted and hopefully keep blowing your mind
My squat and bench have greatly suffered since my shoulder surgery (torn labrum, re attached in 4 places in October 2015, lots of physio to even be able to lift and move my own arm let alone any weight!)
I’m sure when I break through the mental barrier of “your shoulder isn’t going to dislocate” my numbers will increase greatly but positioning wise I still find it unnerving and slightly uncomfortable, especially in the squat. I’ve started the routine with a conservative 1 RM squat calculation of 140kg, 40kg less than what I can deadlift for reps.
I hope it works out for you, honestly.Thanks for the detailed response.
I'll keep you posted and hopefully keep blowing your mind
My squat and bench have greatly suffered since my shoulder surgery (torn labrum, re attached in 4 places in October 2015, lots of physio to even be able to lift and move my own arm let alone any weight!)
I’m sure when I break through the mental barrier of “your shoulder isn’t going to dislocate” my numbers will increase greatly but positioning wise I still find it unnerving and slightly uncomfortable, especially in the squat. I’ve started the routine with a conservative 1 RM squat calculation of 140kg, 40kg less than what I can deadlift for reps.
It's a pretty standard pattern, people have either plateaued for a while or have been injured and are keen to work hard to get back to previous numbers. Don't let frustration and impatience lead to poor judgement.
As a side note, some inexperienced powerlifters from my gym decided to exactly what you're doing without consulting more experienced members. They did this to increase their numbers for a comp that's happening in a few weeks, aiming to beat numbers they achieved a couple of weeks ago. Of the four who started, one started suffering some symptoms of over training and has had to stop, another is now injured, and the other two are struggling on every set. Contrast this with someone else who is on the same competition schedule who I wrote a transitional programme for and is looking to comfortably beat his previous competition's numbers.
Soldato
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Thanks again
Are the lifters who are failing/struggling incorporating pull days as well as "normal" amounts of accessory work? The program itself says "sticking exclusively with the squats and / or bench press will take you a long way though. If you do decide to mix in a little accessory work, keep it brief."
The last thing I want to do is cause myself injury and put myself out of action again.
I'm not sure what they are doing now tbh, although I was telling one of them he still needed to be doing various things. One can only do so muchThanks again
Are the lifters who are failing/struggling incorporating pull days as well as "normal" amounts of accessory work? The program itself says "sticking exclusively with the squats and / or bench press will take you a long way though. If you do decide to mix in a little accessory work, keep it brief."
The last thing I want to do is cause myself injury and put myself out of action again.
That guidance is from a website put together by someone who probably knows very little about programming. The often parroted advice is that you should do nothing apart from the assigned squatting/benching work. This is because for most people this is basically too much as it is. Unfortunately, most people don't have strong enough antagonists or postural muscles or good enough tissue quality for this work out (this is ignoring the skill fade from not deadlifting). The point is, it's complicated.
This comes down to the training age issue again. Unless you are advanced, you really should be drawing from a broad pallet of exercises because there are a lot of boxes to be ticked. One of those unticked boxes could result in injury, which is why most people shouldn't do this type of programme.
Tried a new leg session last night if any one fancies giving it a go. Be warned, you will feel like you've stepped on a landmine
This is not going to allow you to lift heavy, but it will provide gains. And obviously this would be a one off workout, not something you'd do every week, unless you're insane
Leg Extensions - 20 x2, 30
Back Squat/Front Squat Superset - 15/15 x5
Walking Lunges - 30 steps x3
Single Leg Leg Press/Leg Press Mixed Superset* - 12/30x5
With the leg press, you do single leg each leg for 12 reps then immediately switch to both legs, doing 15 reps feet close together, 15 reps as wide as you can. So you want to pick a weight that's a real struggle for 12 reps single leg but light enough that you can do 30 reps double leg straight after.
30 seconds rest max
Enjoy
This is not going to allow you to lift heavy, but it will provide gains. And obviously this would be a one off workout, not something you'd do every week, unless you're insane
Leg Extensions - 20 x2, 30
Back Squat/Front Squat Superset - 15/15 x5
Walking Lunges - 30 steps x3
Single Leg Leg Press/Leg Press Mixed Superset* - 12/30x5
With the leg press, you do single leg each leg for 12 reps then immediately switch to both legs, doing 15 reps feet close together, 15 reps as wide as you can. So you want to pick a weight that's a real struggle for 12 reps single leg but light enough that you can do 30 reps double leg straight after.
30 seconds rest max
Enjoy
Hey people, I'd like some help, I think I need to stop my heavy bench work and replace with something else, it's aggravating my rotator cuff injury. I do the rotator cuff specific work twice a week I posted about a while ago (the thing off T-nation) and the pain is normally gone (partially dislocated right shoulder twice kayaking) but bench sets it off. Routine I wanted to continue following is (for bench):
Week 1 Day 1: Bench: 4x5x80% + 6x3x60% + OHP: 3x8x60%
Week 1 Day 2: OHP: 4x5x80% + 6x3x60% + Bench: 3x8x60%
Week 2 Day 1: Bench: 2x1x90% + 3x3x85% + 6x3x65% + OHP: 3x6x70%
Week 2 Day 2: OHP: 2x1x90% + 3x3x85% + 6x3x65% + Bench: 3x6x70%
Week 3 Day 1: Bench: 2x2x80% + 6x3x70%
Week 3 Day 2: OHP: 2x2x80% + 6x3x70% + Bench 5x1x90%
Week 4: New Max (either on same day or a few days apart)
(Thanks reiyushin, I'm also using this for squat and deadlift and they feel good).
The above is based off a training max of 80kg for bench. There's also assistance work for which I do some random fun things I feel like, I try to stick to 2-3 sets of >10 reps for these.
I'd been using my work gym which only has dumbells and I'd been working off those (albeit only up to 25kg) but my new housemate has a decent home gym so I swapped to barbell this week and I just can't bench heavy.
Gym was meant to be assistance work for kayaking back when I started but I do more gym now than I ever get to kayak so goals are to get stronk and work round the shoulder until it heals up completely (hopefully).
To save a lot of trial and error, I was hoping to get some ideas for things to try
Week 1 Day 1: Bench: 4x5x80% + 6x3x60% + OHP: 3x8x60%
Week 1 Day 2: OHP: 4x5x80% + 6x3x60% + Bench: 3x8x60%
Week 2 Day 1: Bench: 2x1x90% + 3x3x85% + 6x3x65% + OHP: 3x6x70%
Week 2 Day 2: OHP: 2x1x90% + 3x3x85% + 6x3x65% + Bench: 3x6x70%
Week 3 Day 1: Bench: 2x2x80% + 6x3x70%
Week 3 Day 2: OHP: 2x2x80% + 6x3x70% + Bench 5x1x90%
Week 4: New Max (either on same day or a few days apart)
(Thanks reiyushin, I'm also using this for squat and deadlift and they feel good).
The above is based off a training max of 80kg for bench. There's also assistance work for which I do some random fun things I feel like, I try to stick to 2-3 sets of >10 reps for these.
I'd been using my work gym which only has dumbells and I'd been working off those (albeit only up to 25kg) but my new housemate has a decent home gym so I swapped to barbell this week and I just can't bench heavy.
Gym was meant to be assistance work for kayaking back when I started but I do more gym now than I ever get to kayak so goals are to get stronk and work round the shoulder until it heals up completely (hopefully).
To save a lot of trial and error, I was hoping to get some ideas for things to try
First day of the StrongLifts thing for me.
I couldn't get a bar at first so did some rowing then some lat pull down stuff and then some rear flys.
Then got a bar and did the first day. Weights were very low so was quite easy. I gave myself 20s rests as only dealing with 25kg for each. Decided to do a few extra reps rather than upping the weight as it'll increase soon and I figure I can concentrate on form.
I do struggle with form on bent over rows which is annoying.
I couldn't get a bar at first so did some rowing then some lat pull down stuff and then some rear flys.
Then got a bar and did the first day. Weights were very low so was quite easy. I gave myself 20s rests as only dealing with 25kg for each. Decided to do a few extra reps rather than upping the weight as it'll increase soon and I figure I can concentrate on form.
I do struggle with form on bent over rows which is annoying.
For somebody with a potential rotator cuff problem, that is a LOT of petrol to pour on that particular fire.
The rotator cuff is one part of a big puzzle involving the shoulder's mobility and stability. You mentioned you were benching with dumbbells: did that cause pain, too?