***The 2020 Gym Rats Thread*** ᕦ( ͠°◞ °)ᕥ

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Starting Strength =/= Stronglifts 5x5

Of the 3 Stronglifts would be my pick since
a) you get the practice the lifts more per session than you do with Starting Strength due to the additional sets (and SS these days has power cleans rather than rows, which nobody will do properly without hands-on coaching, and Mark Rippetoe can't even coach it himself)
b) learning how to row and OHP properly is good and rotating a few exercises is going to be more enjoyable for nearly everyone than just doing the same 3 movements over and over.

I don't really understand the obsession with doing faaaahves and think they're all a bit dull, but everything works for a beginner and it minimises the kind of aimless messing around in the gym most people do when they start out.
 
Somnambulist said:
Starting Strength =/= Stronglifts 5x5

Of the 3 Stronglifts would be my pick since
a) you get the practice the lifts more per session than you do with Starting Strength due to the additional sets (and SS these days has power cleans rather than rows, which nobody will do properly without hands-on coaching, and Mark Rippetoe can't even coach it himself)
b) learning how to row and OHP properly is good and rotating a few exercises is going to be more enjoyable for nearly everyone than just doing the same 3 movements over and over.

I don't really understand the obsession with doing faaaahves and think they're all a bit dull, but everything works for a beginner and it minimises the kind of aimless messing around in the gym most people do when they start out.
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I wasn't actually comparing Starting Strength to Strong Lifts.

I was wondering what peoples opinions where on this compared to Strong Lifts.

What I like about the this one is he has a full break down of how to progress it once things start getting tough to continue.
 
opethdisciple said:
I wasn't actually comparing Starting Strength to Strong Lifts.

I was wondering what peoples opinions where on this compared to Strong Lifts.

What I like about the this one is he has a full break down of how to progress it once things start getting tough to continue.
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Why even bother with either programmes? You said you had issues with your knees - your not going to make much progress on squats and deadlifts with preexisting medical issues. You likely reach a weight barrier quite early on and moving bigger will just make the injury worse.

I dont know why your not just focusing on upper for now with a bit of lower stress leg routine on machines to see if your knees can be rebuilt a little.
 
opethdisciple said:
I wasn't actually comparing Starting Strength to Strong Lifts.

I was wondering what peoples opinions where on this compared to Strong Lifts.

What I like about the this one is he has a full break down of how to progress it once things start getting tough to continue.
Click to expand...

It's because you called it Starting Strength 5x5 (as SS is 3x5) in your post.

Anyway, a beginner will progress on ANY program and so the main reason to opt for a beginner routine that uses the powerlifting competition movements is because most gyms have barbells and racks (rather than a specific piece of machine equipment) and that you get started learning the movement patterns/skill component of these lifts from the get-go. Otherwise, there's nothing magic about those movements specifically, as good as they are, and some people just aren't built to do them effectively (while the ones that are tend to harp on about how amazing they are).

Andy of RippedBody coached me back in the day (when he coached beginners) on my first proper diet. That big 3 routine and the RPT one on his site were based off something Martin Berkhan of Leangains came up with - who loved minimalist programs - because Andy was a bit of a fanboy back then before Martin turned into a know-it-all guru, went mad and disappeared from the internet. He then got to know a lot of the evidence-based people in the online fitness world and worked with the guys from 3DMJ (a natural bodybuilding/powerlifting coaching team) to write The Muscle & Strength Pyramid books - which I highly recommend - and those have some great templates in for all levels of lifter, such as these beginner BB and PL programs with all the progression stuff covered. Martin on the other hand went insane and disappeared off the internet

Beginner Bodybuilding
Beginner Powerlifting

My current routine is based off the Intermediate Bodybuilding template, for what it's worth.
 
Somnambulist said:
It's because you called it Starting Strength 5x5 (as SS is 3x5) in your post.

Anyway, a beginner will progress on ANY program and so the main reason to opt for a beginner routine that uses the powerlifting competition movements is because most gyms have barbells and racks (rather than a specific piece of machine equipment) and that you get started learning the movement patterns/skill component of these lifts from the get-go. Otherwise, there's nothing magic about those movements specifically, as good as they are, and some people just aren't built to do them effectively (while the ones that are tend to harp on about how amazing they are).

Andy of RippedBody coached me back in the day (when he coached beginners) on my first proper diet. That big 3 routine and the RPT one on his site were based off something Martin Berkhan of Leangains came up with - who loved minimalist programs - because Andy was a bit of a fanboy back then before Martin turned into a know-it-all guru, went mad and disappeared from the internet. He then got to know a lot of the evidence-based people in the online fitness world and worked with the guys from 3DMJ (a natural bodybuilding/powerlifting coaching team) to write The Muscle & Strength Pyramid books - which I highly recommend - and those have some great templates in for all levels of lifter, such as these beginner BB and PL programs with all the progression stuff covered. Martin on the other hand went insane and disappeared off the internet

Beginner Bodybuilding
Beginner Powerlifting

My current routine is based off the Intermediate Bodybuilding template, for what it's worth.
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Cool, good to know then that the RippedBody website isn't a load of crap then. At the moment I want a 3 day routine so I can use the extra day out of the gym to study for some certs. As for equipment well I use the Hack Squat for squats, hammer strength chest press for chest and the trap bar for deads so if I was going to do the 'big three' then I would use those. I've never been particularly strong. My best every lift was back in 2015 when I was chest pressing 30kg dumbells. But I was horribly imbalanced. All my strength was on my chest and nothing anywhere else. I also managed to do some damage to my shoulder doing this and now it is 'loose' which is why I stick to machines these days for safety.

The other thing I'm looking for is a routine where I can do squats and deads more often. Which is what got me looking in the first place. I've been doing the Lyle McDonald Generic bulking routine and have been alternating Squats one session with deads the next. But I feel like at my level this is less than ideal frequency.

I'm very tempted by the big 3 routine.
 
That's fine. The whole point of a beginner routine is 'pick a few sensible movements, do them regularly, look to get better at them' rather than doing a load of random stuff, switching exercises all the time or what not, so if those 3 can be done pain-free do those. GBR is a physique-oriented upper/lower split over 4 days and obviously you want to do full-body 3 days a week, so no point trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

As you have no plans of competing, if you were able do a back squat variation that could be done pain-free like with a safety bar or back squats with straps to accomplish the same grip position, and your trap bar deads then you could still use a 3 day powerlifting-specific program since the focus is around maximising improvement in those 3 main lifts, you'd just be swapping them out for a variation you could perform.

I'm not genetically gifted, but consistency, diet and using a sensible progression scheme when the noob gains end go a long way: when I used to deadlift I got up to 150kg conventional @ 60kg bw (now 66kg at a similar bf level) and I can remember starting out with 60kg and that feeling heavy. My bench started at about 30kg or something poverty and I'm hoping(!) if things go well I might be able to squeeze a rep out at 100kg by the end of the year. #optimism I still barely look like I lift and train with a bunch of freaks, but I'm only competing against myself so it's all good.
 
I messaged that dude over at Ripped Body and he's advised me not to do the big three routine as it is a meant to be done with a barbell, and due to me planning to do it using alternative equipment he doesn't think I'd get out of it what was intended by the program. He reckons I should do the novice routine instead.

I get it from the perspective of you wont get out of it as intended because the stressors on the body will be different due to the usage of different equipment but also on the other hand find it a little confusing because the novice routine has squats (hack squat) , deads (trap bar) and bench press (hammer strength) in it to so if it's OK for that program why isn't it OK for the big 3 program? :confused:
 
Well I was looking forward to a good squat session tonight. Then I received no breakfast at work and now need to take one of the kittens to the vet after work, which will plonk me straight into the squat rack queue on few calories. I may count this as a rest day.

@reiyushin enjoy your tender deadlifts :p
 
CaptainRAVE said:
Well I was looking forward to a good squat session tonight. Then I received no breakfast at work and now need to take one of the kittens to the vet after work, which will plonk me straight into the squat rack queue on few calories. I may count this as a rest day.

@reiyushin enjoy your tender deadlifts :p
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If it makes you feel better I haven't been able to sleep for two days.
 
Well I made it to a rack. Managed to fuel about 90 minutes before. Didn’t manage to keep it all down though, I think it’s too rich to down quickly now.
 
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doodah said:
Not asking in a medical sense but anyone here gym (weights in particular) with hypermobility syndrome?
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No, but my understanding is you will have to pay more attention to your end ranges/body awareness in certain exercises, so on something like a leg press for example you wouldn't over-extend the leg past what would be a normal lock-out position for people to avoid putting the joint in a vulnerable position.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
Anyone have any advice on deadlift grip? I'm still able to use double overhand at 115 kg, but I'm never sure if the bar should be in the palm or in the fingers?
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I have DOH up to 200kg and the bar sits between my first two knuckle joints and the top half of my palm (as evidenced by my callus position).

But I use hook grip, meaning there is only one place it can go. :)
 
Weighed in this morning. I've put on 1.6kg in a week. Had a few beers and ate some crap but nothing too excessive. My metabolism is so bloody slow. I can barely ever eat rubbish because I just get fat. :p I'm on about 2.2/3k calories at the moment, anymore than that and it turns to fat. I wish I could eat more. :(

Anyway, benched yesterday and didn't fail but it's coming. Building my squats back up after a couple of failures, they don't get any easier.
 
ShortWarning said:
Weighed in this morning. I've put on 1.6kg in a week. Had a few beers and ate some crap but nothing too excessive. My metabolism is so bloody slow. I can barely ever eat rubbish because I just get fat. :p I'm on about 2.2/3k calories at the moment, anymore than that and it turns to fat. I wish I could eat more. :(

Anyway, benched yesterday and didn't fail but it's coming. Building my squats back up after a couple of failures, they don't get any easier.
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Just focus on strength gains and when that slows down up the calories.
 
opethdisciple said:
Eat then I say. That's what a bulk is for. I put weight on easy and quick too. I have a body type where the weight goes straight on my stomach whilst the rest of me is skinny. (－‸ლ)
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Same! The more weight I put on though, the longer I have to cut for. I ended up cutting over 7kg last year but it took a good few months and it was not fun at all.

In some ways, I really enjoy figuring out what my body needs. I just wish it needed more. :p
 
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