ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ ||| The 2023/2024 Gym Rats Thread ||| ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

[Mystikal]

In the very study you have linked it says 5g is enough...and 5g is the advised amount to take. You dont expideite anything by going over 5g you dont reduce the saturation from 20 days to 5 days for example, or from 5 days to 2-3. Further more the study you linked is sponsored by a creatine producer.

Also as you mention taking extra wont cause any issues, it also wont provide any benefit!

5g is certainly enough over a sustained period of time, I am not disputing that. As I mentioned, the strategy for supplementation is entirely dependant on the goals of the individual. There are studies which show muscle total creatine concentration increased by approximately 20% after 6 days of creatine supplementation at a rate of 20 g/day. This elevated concentration was maintained when supplementation was continued at a rate of 2 g/day for a further 30 days. A similar, but more gradual, 20% increase in muscle total creatine concentration was observed over a period of 28 days when supplementation was undertaken at a rate of 3 g/day. (Muscle creatine loading in men - E Hultman, K Soderlund, JA Timmons, G Cederblad, PL Greenhaff)

If there is no harm to a person's health by taking 20-25g of creatine for 6-7 days and it means you can slightly expedite the concentration in the muscles, I would say that is still a benefit and worth taking the extra few scoops for the first week. Each to their own, though; in the long term, there is clearly difference, but personally, any small benefit or shortcut to better performance that is safe is absolutely worth it to me.

CaptainRAVE it sounds like you're on a very positive trajectory. Keep it up!

 

[Syla5]

If there is no harm to a person's health by taking 20-25g of creatine for 6-7 days and it means you can slightly expedite the concentration in the muscles, I would say that is still a benefit and worth taking the extra few scoops for the first week. Each to their own, though; in the long term, there is clearly difference, but personally, any small benefit or shortcut to better performance that is safe is absolutely worth it to me.

There is no harm, but there is almost no perceived benefit either, and especially when you factor in the long term, so not sure how you come to the conclusion that in the long term there is clearly a benefit? As i have said multiple times, loading creatine has been debunked pretty substantially that its not needed, and even when done is of almost no benefit. 1% extra benefit on 1% total benefit is 0.01% additional benefit from loading. You are almost certainly just peeing out most of the excess creatine which is why its pretty much a waste.

Sure at the end of the day its less than £1 in loading or not, but really everyone should be taking 3-5g creatine per day for life, so that really diminishes the value of loading even more.

 

[Spleen Sauce]

First time I got onto Creatine I followed a loading routine. Got badly injured so stopped weight training for a bit over a year, and came off the Creatine.

Got cleared to weight train again back in December so back onto the Creatine. Not loading this time, just the 5-ish grams per day.

Zero difference in perceived performance between the two methods for me.

 

[Mystikal]

There is no harm, but there is almost no perceived benefit either, and especially when you factor in the long term, so not sure how you come to the conclusion that in the long term there is clearly a benefit? As i have said multiple times, loading creatine has been debunked pretty substantially that its not needed, and even when done is of almost no benefit. 1% extra benefit on 1% total benefit is 0.01% additional benefit from loading. You are almost certainly just peeing out most of the excess creatine which is why its pretty much a waste.

Sure at the end of the day its less than £1 in loading or not, but really everyone should be taking 3-5g creatine per day for life, so that really diminishes the value of loading even more.

As the study I mentioned indicates, there is clearly a benefit in terms of the initial creatine concentration in the muscles. Other studies may contradict this and I'm more than happy to read through them. By "long term," I meant if people are actively supplementing with creatine intermittently for various reasons throughout their lives.

Your comment on excess creatine being excreted in urine is also not entirely accurate. I recommend listening to "Science-Supported Tools to Accelerate Your Fitness Goals | Huberman Lab Podcast" specifically starting at 1 hour and 17 minutes into the episode. His recommendation for creatine supplementation dosage is based on an individual's body weight, so daily doses of 10-15g, based on how the studies were performed, would be more beneficial for those weighing 185-250 lbs or even heavier. This should not only improve athletic performance but also cognitive function. As I mentioned, you and everyone else are free to supplement however you see fit. Whether it's an extra few scoops during a "loading phase" or additional scoops daily as suggested by Andrew Huberman, the potential extra benefits far outweigh the extra cost for a supplement that is relatively inexpensive compared to others on the market. I personally supplement 15g per day and have noticed performance improvements in my gym sessions.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

I think there’s some creatine in my preworkout, but I can’t tell the difference after a number of days without it. Sleep and nutrition seem far more important.

 

[mrthingyx]

I think there’s some creatine in my preworkout, but I can’t tell the difference after a number of days without it. Sleep and nutrition seem far more important.

Noticing a 10% practical difference when sleep and nutrition are potentially worth more is going to be pretty hard!

 

[Deception]

I already track my workouts in 3 places I think a log would be overkill!! Plus no one reads them any more.

Also I’ve shifted focus to include cycling as cardio now and I’m not going to be going for any higher numbers any time soon. Focus on hypertrophy until I start cutting again.

Ah fair enough, yea I did notice it was pretty scarce in the log section. Nothing like the 'old days' with the little friend competitiveness I've been using the Strong app to track my workouts now and again, seems to do well for what I want.

My cardio normally consists of taking the dog for his 5mile+ walk in the morning before with a bit of jogging.

Training is going pretty well so far, but still unable to do any squatting thanks to knee, although stuff like BSS seems to be fine if I do some decent warmup/mobility. Hopefully I'll be able to lift 200kg on sumo DL by end of April and one day ill manage 100kg on OHP before dropping it on my face Maybe I should invest in to some knee sleeves or something while recovering!

 

[DarkShadow]

X-post from my log.

It's been a while, coming into Ramadan, I pushed through 6 new PBs (singles and Reps). For the first time both bench and squats had a whopping PR of 10KG each.

I don't feel strong due to tiredness but the numbers are coming through. I thought in my mid-30s progressing would be a PITA but it's still possible.

Singles PBs:
Squat: 220KG (+10KG gain)
Deadlift: 271.25 (+1.25KG gain - plate fell off)
Bench: 130 KG (+10 KG gain)

Reps:
Squat: 190KG x 7
Deadlift: 250KG x 5
Bench: 117.5 X 5

 

[mrthingyx]

X-post from my log.

It's been a while, coming into Ramadan, I pushed through 6 new PBs (singles and Reps). For the first time both bench and squats had a whopping PR of 10KG each.

Habibi, I had Marvin Gaye playing in my head whilst watching the PB video.

And Ramadan is about spiritual gains, right?

 

[Syla5]

Impressive stuff as always @DarkShadow

 

[Razor-BladE]

Those numbers are insane.

-----
I've always been doing a tiny bit of training here and there (had a log here ages ago) but nothing really consistent (badminton my main sport - play 2-3 times a week). And when I do get around to training more frequently I always seem to stall at about 120kg squat 5x5.

I've fairly recently put a squat rack in my garage, so been managing to train a bit more consistently squatting 2-3 times a week. I also changed to 8x3 as it should help to be more explosive around the court but I've always done 5x5 so I thought the change up would help, and yes it has.. and quicker than I thought as well.

Only about a month and a half ago I got back up to 120kg, and today I just hit 130kg for 8x3! And it felt pretty solid as well, 2 minutes rest for the first half and then about 3 minutes for the second half and I even felt like I could've squeezed out an extra rep on the last set.

I've always wanted to join the 3 plate gang and until now it's felt so far off, but I can actually imagine myself getting to it

I just need to stay consistent, which is the hard part!

 

[booyaka]

On Week 5 of a 6 week back squat program.... added into my crossfit training.

Being 48 years old, dodgy knees and hips - Need to get some squatting going again... Gym runs a big group session of about 30/40 people on a wednesday night squatting (males and females) then another session on a sat/sun. So bascially 2 sessions a week for 6 weeks.

5 years ago my 1RM was 140kg. I did a quick test at the start of this with basically zero squats for months and was 120kg for a single 5 weeks ago.

Since then it's been

Week 1 -

4x10 @ 70% (84kg)
then homework session was 2 x 5 @ 92.5kg & 3 x 5 @ 95kg

Week 2
4 x 8 @ 95kg
homework - 6 x 4 reps @ 100kg

Week 3

4 x 6 reps @ 100kg
homework - 7 sets of 3 reps @ 105kg

Week 4

4 x 10 reps @ 100kg
Home work session - 4 sets of 5 @ 105kg and 1 x 5 @ 107.5kg

Week 5

4 x 8 @ 105kg
1 x 2 @ 110kg
1 x 2 @ 115kg

Getting some doubles in ahead of a 1RM test at end of 6 weeks.

Homework week 5

2 sets of 4 @ 110kg
2 sets of 4 @ 112.5kg

I'll update as we go on but good to be squatting again - but certainly feel it more the day after being nearly 50 years old!

 

[mrthingyx]

On Week 5 of a 6 week back squat program.... added into my crossfit training.

Being 48 years old, dodgy knees and hips - Need to get some squatting going again... Gym runs a big group session of about 30/40 people on a wednesday night squatting (males and females) then another session on a sat/sun. So bascially 2 sessions a week for 6 weeks.

5 years ago my 1RM was 140kg. I did a quick test at the start of this with basically zero squats for months and was 120kg for a single 5 weeks ago.

Since then it's been

Week 1 -

4x10 @ 70% (84kg)
then homework session was 2 x 5 @ 92.5kg & 3 x 5 @ 95kg

Week 2
4 x 8 @ 95kg
homework - 6 x 4 reps @ 100kg

Week 3

4 x 6 reps @ 100kg
homework - 7 sets of 3 reps @ 105kg

Week 4

4 x 10 reps @ 100kg
Home work session - 4 sets of 5 @ 105kg and 1 x 5 @ 107.5kg

Week 5

4 x 8 @ 105kg
1 x 2 @ 110kg
1 x 2 @ 115kg

Getting some doubles in ahead of a 1RM test at end of 6 weeks.

Homework week 5

2 sets of 4 @ 110kg
2 sets of 4 @ 112.5kg

I'll update as we go on but good to be squatting again - but certainly feel it more the day after being nearly 50 years old!

Nice.

You can always reverse the loading pattern, so you try out for a heavy max single and then back off from that for your "training" weight. A very "weightlifter" thing to do.

 

[Syla5]

@DarkShadow how did you balance cycling and lifting, I've started using Zwift 4 weeks ago and cut my gym down to 3 days from 4, with only 1 lower day per week, but getting on the bike for 4x1hr+ sessions per week I'm feeling like there's no time for recovery!

 

[booyaka]

Nice.

You can always reverse the loading pattern, so you try out for a heavy max single and then back off from that for your "training" weight. A very "weightlifter" thing to do.

Thanks

Last night was 3 sets of 6 and some heavy doubles.

So was supposed to be 107.5kg but ended up doing 110kg for 1 set and 112.5kg for 2 sets. Then a couple of doubles at 117.5kg and 120kg.

Got some heavy, but not maxing out, doubles to do on Saturday before 1rm test night next Wednesday. Like I say - good 6 week block to get me squatting again so will try and keep it going.

 

[DarkShadow]

@DarkShadow how did you balance cycling and lifting, I've started using Zwift 4 weeks ago and cut my gym down to 3 days from 4, with only 1 lower day per week, but getting on the bike for 4x1hr+ sessions per week I'm feeling like there's no time for recovery!

I'll share a couple of ideas with you that should help.

1. Periodize your sport. Choose what's important to you at this moment in time.

This means give more weighting to what's important to you. I've now started periodising my endeavours.

Example
My goal in June is to complete the Welsh 3000s. Climbing 15 peaks over 3000ft in about 18hours (ideally).

My high level plan:
Q1 Lift
Q2 Hike
Q3 Cycle
Q4 Lift (intro block to PR for 2025)

Each quart is then broken into 3 blocks for each relevant sport.

2. Introduce MEV (Minimum effective volume).
Does mean I quit lifting for 2 quarters? Nope. I still lift but I slash my volume by about 50% and I generally work around 85% off my previous PR. This means that my movement patterns are primed for Q4. This year, for hiking I'll be dropping my squats and deadlifts to work off 70-80% but continue my bench journey.

However, there's a case for completely dropping lifting and just enjoying your season of sport (which I intend to take up in the coming years).

Understand this is a process and you're learning about yourself. You're going to make mistakes but refine this annually. My advice is be more conservative than trying to tank your recoverability, this means you'll enjoy neither sport as you're just burnt out.


Treat your training like your diet. Your meals should be similar whether bulking, maintaining or cutting. You're just just choosing portion sizes to support your goals.

What should influence your decision is your goals/responsibilities and commitments in life. I'm a busy dad and I'm trying to squeeze every hour so that I can maximise the finite window of opportunity to reach my aspirations. Taking off lifting for me would Q4 is incredibly taxing to be PR ready. I've developed a system that accommodates for life which is full of surprises. Right now, it feels low commitment as I spend less time training than most.

Example off season:

Primary: Sport related excercises
Secondary: SBD
Accessories: Minimal

Example on season:

Primary: SBD
Secondary: Variations of SBD
Accessories: 4-12 groups per week (goal specific)

Hope that helps.

Habibi, I had Marvin Gaye playing in my head whilst watching the PB video.

And Ramadan is about spiritual gains, right?

Hah. I overshot my quarter, was supposed to happen before but 3 sessions of 60 mins weren't too taxing. Ngl, it's already a spiritual process

 

[reiyushin]

Just to chime in on the creatine discussion, for the last 6 months or so I've been adding in an extra 5-10g on training days (so 10-15g total) and my gainz have been great purely anecdotal, I'll 100% accept that it's likely placebo but I for sure swear I feel better for doing it.
The extra is taken roughly 40mins pre training and I'm weighing about 115kgs these days.

Could be anything though, like the timing of it is more beneficial to me, the extra water means I'm better hydrated etc etc who knows.

 

[ShortWarning]

I've cycled off of creatine before and I' not sure I noticed that much difference. I take it daily just because I may as well though.

 

[xiphrex]

I've cycled off of creatine before and I' not sure I noticed that much difference. I take it daily just because I may as well though.

I am in the same situation - I think Im one of those non-responders to creatine, but take it anyway.

 

[booyaka]

Well - 6 week block of back squats...

Very short - I know - but good to get moving again with a large group of people to at least make it less of a grind.

120kg coming in as 1RM.... Got 132kg at the end of the block.... Niggling hip /knee pain for last few weeks hasn't helped but happy to push the numbers up a bit.

Going to take a short rest from squats to see if hip pain clears up - then try and stick with it at least once a week going forward.