The 5 year plan to £50k

[FoxEye]

OK, here goes. I want to start a career. The goal is to get to £50k p.a. in 5 years, starting with nothing. Only GCSEs. I'm not sure if this is even possible, but maybe you guys have done something similar.

Basically I'm 34 and have done **** all up to this point to take control of my life. I'd like to change that. Step 1 will be to get a career, and then move out of my parents basement. Feel free to mercilessly take the **** at this point. (Step 3 is to get a cat, btw. I need a cat in my life but my parents hate them ).

So today I'm looking at various job sites, but it's bewildering. Also the jobs I thought would be good earners (software devs, etc) aren't nearly as good as I thought (various people offering 20k for a software dev with experience )

I keep wondering how people get started and how the heck they end up where they are. I mean, who leaves school thinking he'll be a crane operator, or a control room operator, working on an oil rig? Where do the opportunities come from? P.S. I'm not using them as example of my dream job, just decent paying jobs.

So anyway I just have GCSEs. Got A's in Maths/English/Science. But that's all! I've been to uni and dropped out, and in the process used all of my loan eligibility (I was at uni for 4.5 years, dossing around like a moron. I was a moron. I still am really, as my posts here attest to).

I have no money to fund going back to uni, nor do I want to unless there's no other way.

I currently earn 27k doing **** all for the local council (sorry, tax-payers). It's depressing because I don't learn anything, and there's so little work for me to do I spend most of my time here on OcUK I'm vaguely "in IT" if you could call doing nothing at all "IT". I have average IT skills for someone on OcUK. But nothing "skilled" because most 1st/2nd line stuff is child's play, and a monkey could do it.

So, imagine you are me. Where do you start? All I'm doing atm is looking on job sites but I don't think this is the smartest way of finding a good paying career. All I'm finding is work I'm not qualified to do.

What do?

 

[FoxEye]

Get another second job with the council doing the same thing, dont leave your current job. Bingo 54k a year and as you say you dont do anything so it should be manageable from a man hour POV.

I don't want to make a career from doing nothing whilst being a drain on everyone else I'd actually like to do something useful and valuable, eventually.

Thanks for the suggestions so far; keep em coming!

[edit: doesn't have to be Cornwall if the wage would cover rent, naturally. Nobody ever got rich in Cornwall, I don't think ]

 

[FoxEye]

No offence, but at 34, I'm really skeptical that you'll actually change.

KaHn

Let's pretend, OK?

Honestly in other threads there's plenty of people saying "If you aren't happy, do something about it, don't moan about it." Which is fair enough.

But then when you want to do something, and ask for a little help, you get this kind of reply? You honestly think that helps, KaHn?

 

[FoxEye]

The main point is why now? Why not 10 years ago? or 5years ago?

Does it matter?

If you've wasted 30 years should you waste whatever remaining time you have left?

Can you be called a totally lost cause at any age?

 

[FoxEye]

No but you're basically asking what the easiest way to improve your life with no qualifications, to the point of earning double the average wage. As I've said in other threads lots of people will complain about not having something than actually changing.

If you're going to change then great, but trying to tell me I'm trying to put you down when I've given pretty decent advice is a bit wrong, I just want you to actually go out and start working your backside off to get to where you want to be and not just ask for advice or sympathy from a forum.

KaHn

**** KaHn, where did I ask for sympathy? Bloody hell mate, your twisting this to actually try to make me look bad?

I started the thread for advice, yes. What's wrong with that?

Gah, thanks. You've put me in a bad mood now

 

[FoxEye]

Look into it courses you can be put onto (via company) that improve your skills? (and thus command higher salary)

The current easy job sounds like it suits you (why not!?) Just try work upwards?

Why the need for more money? Why 50k? Working from the bottom up in a new industry I doubt you'll make that amount. Also could be a case of "the grass is always greener"

1. The current job is a fixed-term contract, and will end in March 2015. Could be extended if we fail to deliver on time (quite likely).

2. The figure of 50k I plucked out of the air as an amount which would let me buy a house, and move out. Average house price being 160k, new govt policy is to limit mortgages to 4x salary. 50k should do it.

Also, no disrespect, but the jobs paying less than say 30k tend not to be very demanding, shall we say. Like delivery drivers or factory workers. I would like to end up doing something that not everybody could just walk in off the street and do.

My current job at 27k for doing literally nothing is a prime example. It's depressing and demoralising.

 

[FoxEye]

Fail to deliver and you do nothing........ maybe thats the problem?

KaHn

Could you kindly not post anymore in this thread. Thanks. You seem intent on having a go at me. For what reason I have no idea. I can't remember talking to you before.

 

[FoxEye]

FoxEye, I don't know how else to say this; your attitude stinks. You started off well enough, but stuff like this...

... is just plain rude. So you want to improve your situation and build a better life for yourself, but only on your terms, is that it? Only if you can do the right kind of job, and it's suitably demanding for you? (But not too hard, right? Am I close?)

A good friend of mine started a business cleaning ovens - just him, driving around in a van. 8 years later he employs three people to work for him, owns two houses and drives a Merc. But oven cleaning is a job "everybody could walk in off the street and do", right? And it's hard. So it's not for you, obviously.

You know how people get where they are? They work hard; they try. They look for opportunities and they take them. Here you are moaning about how you get paid a (pretty decent, frankly) wage, but you have so little work to do that you just sit on a forum all day... and what, you want jobs to fall in your lap?

Nope, you've got it wrong.

I'm actually just not sure where to begin. I could spend all day on a job vacancies site and not get anywhere. No I'm not expecting a job to fall into my lap. You know why? Because it hasn't happened in 34 years, and I'm fairly sure it won't ever happen.

Anyway, yes it's mostly true that jobs paying <30k are not skilled jobs. Is it somehow insulting to actually state the obvious?

I'm sure that starting your own business is not easy. I'm sure it's a lot of hard work. But cleaning ovens is very different to starting a business to clean ovens. I think we are confusing the different types of "demanding". I equated that to being skilled and/or needing to solve problems. Lots of jobs are physically demanding, like oven cleaning, without being mentally challenging, or "skilled".

Thus any fit, able bodied person could walk in off the street and start cleaning ovens, with a little instruction. I never claimed that you could run a business without putting the effort in, however. I didn't talk about starting a business at all!

/shrug. Not sure why that's insulting, but hey. Also I see you're being insulted on somebody else's behalf, which is all the rage these days

 

[FoxEye]

Same as the poster above, you asked for help, we gave help, then when questioned its become apparent your attitude to working is ridiculous.

Nice thing about this being a forum is you have to take the comments, if you can't take criticism maybe its best you just retreat to the basement you came from?

KaHn

Admit it, you wouldn't talk to one of your friends like you've been talking to me from your very first (or 2nd) post.

Apart from your one suggestion, which was your 1st post, all the rest were put downs.

And to finish off you tell me to crawl back into my basement. You don't see why I'd be even slightly offended? Gee, you must have the sensitivity of a rock.

 

[FoxEye]

The reason the posts changed tone is because you started to show that you don't seem like you want to change which annoys me when you ask for help doing so.

KaHn

How did you get that impression????? Maybe I'm not so good with words as I imagine... Show me where you think I'm saying I don't want to start the ball rolling?

And the end-game is to have a job not everyone "off the street" could do. The end game. I never could expect that from the beginning! I'm not that stupid!

But 5 years is a lot of time to learn new tricks, yes? I'm quite sure I can learn something worthwhile in 5 years. I'm no genius, but the goal is to be 5 years in front of the other man who walks in off the street. You see?

 

[FoxEye]

@Nitefly. I've only been on this wage since March. Before that I was on 15k. And before that I had no job and a large amount of debt. Many thousands of pounds of debt. Not including student loan.

Therefore I have no huge savings from which to afford a deposit. I freely admit my past choices were poor. And for that I am receiving precisely what that course of action deserved - nothing.

I don't think it's absurd to aim for 50k in 5 years? Lots of people have done this. Admittedly most of the people I know have done this have degrees. But I'm hoping this isn't such a huge obstacle.

 

[FoxEye]

I could probably show you a 100 jobs which are skilled which pay less than 30k. The fact that you want to do it with minimal training as well is quite naive and in 5 years you could be doing something which still doesn't warrant a 50k/year salary.

The other point I'm making is by your own admission you sit all day doing nothing, I don't know anyone who's wanted to change or succeeded in doing so who has that mentality, they either work the backsides off in their current job and are sick of it so decide to retrain/move industry to get into a position they want.

KaHn

You're wrong about minimal training. I'd be happily to do several years of on-the-job training. Just not university. I guess I'm just not suited to academic study. I tried it, remember, for 4 years. I failed at it, and I have no reason to believe I'd succeed at it if I went back. I am, however, good at learning by doing.

Yes in my current job I do nothing all day. This isn't my fault. The other 2 people in the same role also do nothing all day. We have nothing to do, or the workload is very sporadic. This is mainly due to constant moving of the goalposts in the project. We were supposed to be almost done by now, but the project is basically off the rails. Problems are way higher up the chain than us. We're just the techies.

 

[FoxEye]

So what other job have you had which you could do "on the job learning"?

KaHn

None. Hence the point of the thread

I don't have the answer to that - and was hoping to get some ideas/ pointers/ direction. Where to direct my effort, and to learn from other people who've been successful.

Only my last two jobs have been in IT. Before that I had a succession of crap jobs like cleaner or warehouse person. No training necessary, and no prospects. But back then I wasn't trying to improve myself.

Hopefully I can still have some measure of success even if I've left it until very recently to make the attempt.

[edit: I'm going to lose 100% of my wage in March 2015. There is no guarantee I'll get another 27k job. My previous was 15k, remember.]

 

[FoxEye]

Then good luck, I think you need to decide what you'll enjoy doing otherwise you'll end up thinking its below you and not trying (this isn't meant as a dig it just seems like the attitude you have) and then work on the money side of it from there.

The majority of roles now will need formal qualifications and these don't come cheap/easy.

KaHn

Thanks. I guess I have no idea what I'd enjoy doing, having pretty limited experience of anything other than min wage work (which I did not enjoy). Obviously it's not going to be physicist or engineer. Or many other things which need academic learning. But it could be anything else....!

The only thing I'm certain of is that you need 40-50k to get on the housing ladder. Otherwise you are a slave to your landlord (not only will you be earning less, but you'll be paying about 50% of your take-home as rent!).

 

[FoxEye]

So much aggression in this thread.

Let's play devil's advocate:

So, you're now nearly 40. You've somehow managed to get your desired benchmark of 50k, but the job doesn't fill you with meaning or content. You're working for the sake of working.

Now what?

Ugh, every time someone asks a meaningful question I can only doubt myself a little more.

These questions are so multi-faceted.

How do you fulfill your potential...
How do you find satisfaction in your job...
How do you give your life meaning and purpose...

I wish I knew the answer to any of them.

The purpose of life isn't to earn 50k and buy a house. Obviously. But I don't know of a better goal to work towards.

 

[FoxEye]

Your attitude is poor

I wish people would qualify that kind of statement. You'll need to explain, because I'm not the most socially adept person you'll ever meet.

 

[FoxEye]

I completely understand Kahn and others view on this and I think you're being a bit sensitive to their suggestions OP. Kahn's probably gave you some of the best advice but the reason you're reacting to it badly is because it points out the one simple truth - what you are wanting/saying/portraying is not the kind of things a person who will earn that sort of money would be saying and it's bothering you as it shows yes you want it but are you ready to work for it yet? Probably not (and my opinion if you are ready for it shouldn't matter to you).

This is also very vague. Maybe you can elaborate?

What are the kinds of things that people who will go on to earn 50k would be saying at the start of their careers?

How do you conclude that I'm not willing to work hard in future? You people seem to know a lot about me

 

[FoxEye]

@xs2man: If I said there is no job I want to do, people would mis-interpret that as not wanting to work. What I actually mean is that I don't have a pull towards any particular job.

It's for me not an easy question, sorry

What interests me? I guess technology in general interests me. But I'm sure there would be other things that would interest me had I been exposed to them. I haven't done that much in 34 years.

The only thing that would motivate me at the current time is money. Not a thing else. Largely because of what I said above.

Maybe you're right and I'm approaching this from the wrong angle. It's all food for thought.

 

[FoxEye]

The job is part of that lifestyle.

You don't work for most of your waking hours, just to spend a small amount how you want to.

You don't work five days a week just to have two days on your terms, that is if you're not being forced to work the odd sixth day due to pressure and 'responsibility'.

I think for a significant number of people the reality is exactly the opposite. They do work in jobs they hate, in order to be able to enjoy their off-work time. Maybe it's a class thing, but I know loads of people who hate their jobs.

Additionally, I imagine some of the most rewarding jobs are voluntary. But you can't support yourself with voluntary work, no matter how much you enjoy it. Conservation work falls into this category. I imagine that has a really good feel factor, but most conservation work is voluntary, as you may know.

You have to compromise, and a lot of people take work because it pays. How many bin men or miners enjoy their jobs? They need the income and society needs the work done.

The people who hate their jobs and earn little are the worst off. They stay poor, and what money they have ends up in the hands of the better off.

The question is who is happier? The man who hates his job but earns a lot, or the man who loves his job but remains poor?

Aren't the people who hate their jobs but earn a good amount in a better place? They still hate their jobs, but they aren't exploited by everyone else.

I don't know. It's late and I'm probably starting to waffle now. Time for bed.

 

[FoxEye]

How fulfilling is your life outside of work?

It isn't.