The 5 year plan to £50k

[David_VI]

Train driver. One of the best paid jobs if you have no qualifications!

 

[sigma]

Could you kindly not post anymore in this thread. Thanks. You seem intent on having a go at me. For what reason I have no idea. I can't remember talking to you before.

He's not having a go, from what I can tell, he's trying to point out (pretty bluntly) that the job is just the end goal - the real plan here should be focusing on what you want. If it really just is £50k then some of the suggestions in here would be ideal but if it's £50k and meaningful career then you need to ask yourself a few questions about what you really want.

 

[FoxEye]

FoxEye, I don't know how else to say this; your attitude stinks. You started off well enough, but stuff like this...

... is just plain rude. So you want to improve your situation and build a better life for yourself, but only on your terms, is that it? Only if you can do the right kind of job, and it's suitably demanding for you? (But not too hard, right? Am I close?)

A good friend of mine started a business cleaning ovens - just him, driving around in a van. 8 years later he employs three people to work for him, owns two houses and drives a Merc. But oven cleaning is a job "everybody could walk in off the street and do", right? And it's hard. So it's not for you, obviously.

You know how people get where they are? They work hard; they try. They look for opportunities and they take them. Here you are moaning about how you get paid a (pretty decent, frankly) wage, but you have so little work to do that you just sit on a forum all day... and what, you want jobs to fall in your lap?

Nope, you've got it wrong.

I'm actually just not sure where to begin. I could spend all day on a job vacancies site and not get anywhere. No I'm not expecting a job to fall into my lap. You know why? Because it hasn't happened in 34 years, and I'm fairly sure it won't ever happen.

Anyway, yes it's mostly true that jobs paying <30k are not skilled jobs. Is it somehow insulting to actually state the obvious?

I'm sure that starting your own business is not easy. I'm sure it's a lot of hard work. But cleaning ovens is very different to starting a business to clean ovens. I think we are confusing the different types of "demanding". I equated that to being skilled and/or needing to solve problems. Lots of jobs are physically demanding, like oven cleaning, without being mentally challenging, or "skilled".

Thus any fit, able bodied person could walk in off the street and start cleaning ovens, with a little instruction. I never claimed that you could run a business without putting the effort in, however. I didn't talk about starting a business at all!

/shrug. Not sure why that's insulting, but hey. Also I see you're being insulted on somebody else's behalf, which is all the rage these days

 

[Freefaller]

The only way you'll get to 50k in 5 years in your position is working for yourself, imo. It's the only job you'll get where nobody will look at your grades, experience or CV, which could quite easily be viewed negatively. It's also not capped in as such as there's no ladder to climb, no waiting for the person above to leave/retire, etc.

In a normal job, you'll be hard pushed. Most people don't even make it to 30k doing the same job for their entire life, and I'm not sure what % of the UK population are on 50k+ but it can't be many.

Edit: 1.68m people are on 50k+ according the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom), or 2.6% of the UK population.

Move to London. Most people are on 50k+ they have nothing to show for it though!

If you're willing to work your bum off for the next few years doing contracting work you could potentially get yourself into a good position perhaps even work abroad?

You need be willing to canvas companies bug lots of businesses go out there and meet people go to events (lots of events happen around different industries go to one that is relevant to your interests and meet people.) Scour LinkedIn add friends to it put yourself out there. You'll have to give up social life and be willing yo put the hours in but if you're tenacious enough you can do it. Be ready to get lots of rejections though.

 

[KaHn]

He's not having a go, from what I can tell, he's trying to point out (pretty bluntly) that the job is just the end goal - the real plan here should be focusing on what you want. If it really just is £50k then some of the suggestions in here would be ideal but if it's £50k for a meaningful career then you need to ask yourself a few questions about what you really want.

I'm generally just quite blunt, its more a tactic to try and to get you to actually change rather than just trying to have the job given to you.

As most have said you ask for something "not anyone can walk in to" yet being a roustabout offshore is basically for the dumbest of dumb (no offence to any but we have a saying in the Engineering world, give a rigger/diver/roustabout 3 ball bearings and they'll lose one, break one and steal the other).

KaHn

 

[FoxEye]

Same as the poster above, you asked for help, we gave help, then when questioned its become apparent your attitude to working is ridiculous.

Nice thing about this being a forum is you have to take the comments, if you can't take criticism maybe its best you just retreat to the basement you came from?

KaHn

Admit it, you wouldn't talk to one of your friends like you've been talking to me from your very first (or 2nd) post.

Apart from your one suggestion, which was your 1st post, all the rest were put downs.

And to finish off you tell me to crawl back into my basement. You don't see why I'd be even slightly offended? Gee, you must have the sensitivity of a rock.

 

[KaHn]

Admit it, you wouldn't talk to one of your friends like you've been talking to me from your very first (or 2nd) post.

Apart from your one suggestion, which was your 1st post, all the rest were put downs.

And to finish off you tell me to crawl back into my basement. You don't see why I'd be even slightly offended? Gee, you must have the sensitivity of a rock.

Believe it or not, I speak to my friends a lot more bluntly than I'm speaking to you. A couple on here will probably testify to that. As for the basement comment, I'd admit that was a bit harsh.

The reason the posts changed tone is because you started to show that you don't seem like you want to change which annoys me when you ask for help doing so.

KaHn

 

[xs2man]

I would like to end up doing something that not everybody could just walk in off the street and do.

This is a fairly reasonable request. Shame it came not long after all the talk about not being willing to self-fund through a university course. If your not willing to train / educate yourself, you will find your opportunities limited. Very limited.

If you want to work offshore, you almost need a degree now. If not a degree, certainly a trade, and some experience. The days of doing your BOSIET / HUET and getting a job are all but gone.

You are too old for an apprenticeship really now. And if I'm honest, your CV will no doubt require you to find a very understanding manager. I failed my first 2 years at my first attempt at uni, and all every manager, bar one, saw was failure, interview over. There was no understanding of my 4 years working in a factory before returning for another 4 years uni showing motivation, it was just failure.

There was one manager who saw the positive in it, and understood what had happened. He saw past the failure and gave me my first step on my current career. From there the experience has taken me to where I am though. But it was very lucky to find that first manager.

Offshore doesn't sound like it's for you to be honest. So I would try to find my fortune elsewhere. Be your own boss. It's realistically the only way to make real money. Unless you left uni at 22 with a 1st class BA...

 

[FoxEye]

The reason the posts changed tone is because you started to show that you don't seem like you want to change which annoys me when you ask for help doing so.

KaHn

How did you get that impression????? Maybe I'm not so good with words as I imagine... Show me where you think I'm saying I don't want to start the ball rolling?

And the end-game is to have a job not everyone "off the street" could do. The end game. I never could expect that from the beginning! I'm not that stupid!

But 5 years is a lot of time to learn new tricks, yes? I'm quite sure I can learn something worthwhile in 5 years. I'm no genius, but the goal is to be 5 years in front of the other man who walks in off the street. You see?

 

[Nitefly]

FoxEye - you are being absurd. Most people work there bums off their whole lives to be on that sort of salary.

Furthermore, I know dozens of people that live in flat-shares that earn loads less than you. You've been on here before complaining about flat-share availability circa de Truro, so just move?!

And serious, 34 and living with your parents? You should have a huge deposit by now if you were that desperate to live by yourself.

Talk about having your cake and eating it too.

 

[Things change I've changed]

I live in Cornwall and I have a flat, (No car though) and I can comfortably live on 12k a year and that's with a girlfriend going out occasionally and upgrading my tech, if I was you earning that kind of cash I would be saving at least 10k a year for the foreseeable future, that's 50k in 5 years towards an investment or a nice property, if your near Newquay a lot of people are making good money on Buy-To-Let properties and house to flat conversions, more of a long term investment though.

My mum earns very little and she save around 10k a yeah in a menial job, she has done that for such a long time now she has more cash in the bank than most people earning triple or even quadruple her wages as a lot of people live a lifestyle that elevates with their earnings and they don't think about the future.

 

[craptakular]

The easy solution here is to pull your finger out of your butt and apply yourself in your current position.

I won't go into the details but I had a "mid-life" crisis at 26, end up taking a 19k job, worked my ass off after realising my mistake, 3 years later and I am earning between 40-50k.

The new job I am working in now, pretty much fell into my lap, so it does happen.

I have been on fixed-term contracts the 19k job was fixed, I made a good impression and was told to apply for another vacancy with a month of the contract to go, a senoir manager told me all the interview question before I went to my interview and he had a word of the hiring manager.

I got the job, 2 years on from that a recruiter called out of the blue. I forgot I registered with this industry specific chap and he got me my current job on 30% more, I didn't have to do anything.

Now I am at a place with the potential to get a secondment all over the globe in rail, water, electric, oil and highways. This won't happen for a few years but it has been discussed.

Basically, what others have already said, why don't you work your butt off in your current job and do more than you are told to do?

I do this all the time, I do things I think are right and are a good use of time and benefit the business, not hide behind my role specification.

 

[FoxEye]

@Nitefly. I've only been on this wage since March. Before that I was on 15k. And before that I had no job and a large amount of debt. Many thousands of pounds of debt. Not including student loan.

Therefore I have no huge savings from which to afford a deposit. I freely admit my past choices were poor. And for that I am receiving precisely what that course of action deserved - nothing.

I don't think it's absurd to aim for 50k in 5 years? Lots of people have done this. Admittedly most of the people I know have done this have degrees. But I'm hoping this isn't such a huge obstacle.

 

[KaHn]

1.
Also, no disrespect, but the jobs paying less than say 30k tend not to be very demanding, shall we say. Like delivery drivers or factory workers. I would like to end up doing something that not everybody could just walk in off the street and do.

I have no money to fund going back to uni, nor do I want to unless there's no other way.

Anyway, yes it's mostly true that jobs paying <30k are not skilled jobs. Is it somehow insulting to actually state the obvious?

But 5 years is a lot of time to learn new tricks, yes? I'm quite sure I can learn something worthwhile in 5 years. I'm no genius, but the goal is to be 5 years in front of the other man who walks in off the street. You see?

I could probably show you a 100 jobs which are skilled which pay less than 30k. The fact that you want to do it with minimal training as well is quite naive and in 5 years you could be doing something which still doesn't warrant a 50k/year salary.

The other point I'm making is by your own admission you sit all day doing nothing, I don't know anyone who's wanted to change or succeeded in doing so who has that mentality, they either work the backsides off in their current job and are sick of it so decide to retrain/move industry to get into a position they want.

KaHn

 

[Nitefly]

@Nitefly. I've only been on this wage since March. Before that I was on 15k. And before that I had no job and a large amount of debt. Many thousands of pounds of debt. Not including student loan.

Therefore I have no huge savings from which to afford a deposit. I freely admit my past choices were poor. And for that I am receiving precisely what that course of action deserved - nothing.

I don't think it's absurd to aim for 50k in 5 years? Lots of people have done this. Admittedly most of the people I know have done this have degrees. But I'm hoping this isn't such a huge obstacle.

For that, I concede that my comments re-savings are, retrospectively, unjust. I also give due credit to your concessions, so by all means, best of luck with your quest.

50k is a relatively huge some of money. I couldn't name many industries that pay that much from 5 years scratch outside of London.

Mobile espresso bar at a train station? Leading to a dominating espresso enterprise? *shrug*

 

[FoxEye]

I could probably show you a 100 jobs which are skilled which pay less than 30k. The fact that you want to do it with minimal training as well is quite naive and in 5 years you could be doing something which still doesn't warrant a 50k/year salary.

The other point I'm making is by your own admission you sit all day doing nothing, I don't know anyone who's wanted to change or succeeded in doing so who has that mentality, they either work the backsides off in their current job and are sick of it so decide to retrain/move industry to get into a position they want.

KaHn

You're wrong about minimal training. I'd be happily to do several years of on-the-job training. Just not university. I guess I'm just not suited to academic study. I tried it, remember, for 4 years. I failed at it, and I have no reason to believe I'd succeed at it if I went back. I am, however, good at learning by doing.

Yes in my current job I do nothing all day. This isn't my fault. The other 2 people in the same role also do nothing all day. We have nothing to do, or the workload is very sporadic. This is mainly due to constant moving of the goalposts in the project. We were supposed to be almost done by now, but the project is basically off the rails. Problems are way higher up the chain than us. We're just the techies.

 

[KaHn]

So what other job have you had which you could do "on the job learning"?

KaHn

/edit :- most jobs with learning included will be starting you one 112-15k I'd expect, you really going to lose half of your current wage?

 

[FoxEye]

So what other job have you had which you could do "on the job learning"?

KaHn

None. Hence the point of the thread

I don't have the answer to that - and was hoping to get some ideas/ pointers/ direction. Where to direct my effort, and to learn from other people who've been successful.

Only my last two jobs have been in IT. Before that I had a succession of crap jobs like cleaner or warehouse person. No training necessary, and no prospects. But back then I wasn't trying to improve myself.

Hopefully I can still have some measure of success even if I've left it until very recently to make the attempt.

[edit: I'm going to lose 100% of my wage in March 2015. There is no guarantee I'll get another 27k job. My previous was 15k, remember.]

 

[KaHn]

Then good luck, I think you need to decide what you'll enjoy doing otherwise you'll end up thinking its below you and not trying (this isn't meant as a dig it just seems like the attitude you have) and then work on the money side of it from there.

The majority of roles now will need formal qualifications and these don't come cheap/easy.

KaHn

 

[FoxEye]

Then good luck, I think you need to decide what you'll enjoy doing otherwise you'll end up thinking its below you and not trying (this isn't meant as a dig it just seems like the attitude you have) and then work on the money side of it from there.

The majority of roles now will need formal qualifications and these don't come cheap/easy.

KaHn

Thanks. I guess I have no idea what I'd enjoy doing, having pretty limited experience of anything other than min wage work (which I did not enjoy). Obviously it's not going to be physicist or engineer. Or many other things which need academic learning. But it could be anything else....!

The only thing I'm certain of is that you need 40-50k to get on the housing ladder. Otherwise you are a slave to your landlord (not only will you be earning less, but you'll be paying about 50% of your take-home as rent!).