Poll: ***The all new gymrats thread***

Do we archive this thread and start a new one for 2010?

  • Yeah good idea.

    Votes: 11 78.6%
  • Nah I'm happy with this one.

    Votes: 3 21.4%

  • Total voters
    14
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I wouldn't recommend too wide a grip on the BB Benchpress, it puts too much strain on the shoulders. I use quite a narrow grip and always keep the shoulder blades back and pinched in for a strong base. Elbows should not be flaired too wide either.

When people blame the benchpress for shoulder injuries its usually down to poor form.

Yeah I agree - though very wide is fine with a very light bar as it just helps get an extra stretch, but I *personally* wouldn't do heavy very wide. I put my ring finger in line with the groove on the bar - that's a nice width for me.

For narrow grip I tend to line up my forefinger where the grip stops and the bar becomes smooth in the middle, so they are about 20cm apart or so.
 
Interesting article on intensity and training volume. Basically he's saying less is more, and how easy it is to over train. Furthermore it supports the gains I've been getting from AGVT which whilst intense and highly volumetric, is also keyed around not over training - no wonder I've been getting the results I have!

Worth a read.

High-Frequency Training For Stubborn Muscles PDF Print E-mail
Written by Carlon M. Colker, MD, FACN
Friday, 21 August 2009
A trap we so often fall into is to train weak body parts more frequently in the hopes that “more is better.” The fact is that it’s a trap that does nothing but eventually shrink muscle, increase local inflammation and raise the likelihood of injuring the area. As an example, a typical scenario would be a 25-year-old bodybuilder who has weak triceps. Instead of sticking with the 10-set intense weekly workouts he started off doing, eventually he figures that 12 sets would be better. Twelve leads to 15 and eventually he’s doing 20 sets. So right there, he’s already overtrained. After awhile, as he no longer feels any soreness in his muscles no matter how many sets he’s doing, he increases the frequency of workouts to the point that he’s hitting his triceps twice each week for 15-20 sets each session. Eventually, he develops elbow pain and tendinitis. Meanwhile, his triceps still look like ****.


His elbow pain and tendinitis is a typical result of excessive inflammation. The same holds true in every joint. Back, hips, shoulders, knees and ankles are all susceptible to high-volume inflammation from repetitive resistive work. Remember that high-volume resistance training is not like a long jog. You must keep in mind that the goal is maximum pump. That means high circulation, heat and lactic acid production in the area. The area should be pumped and then allowed to clear via circulation. If instead you keep going back to the proverbial well, lactic acid remains in the area for too long a period. Lactic acid then slows healing and potentiates the inflammatory state. So while a little abbreviated muscle fatigue as a result of a fleeting pump is good for muscle growth, a constant and excessive battering of movement to try to further break down muscle in an area that already has been pumped to capacity is a formula for disaster.
This guy with his cruddy triceps and elbow pain is a classic example of how to do it the wrong way. Need another example? If you’re dumb enough, you are welcome to try doing 300 reps of squats three times a week for a few months and see if you don’t develop debilitating joint pain! So where exactly did he go wrong? How could he have gone after more muscle growth while not falling into the trap I describe? The answer is easy to understand, but extremely difficult to apply. That’s because the compunction to do more as opposed to less is almost irresistible. But the idea of higher frequency workouts was in fact the right idea_t7a3373.jpg. The mistake he made was that in turn, he should have dialed down the total number of sets he was doing. So if he was maxed out in terms of sets with his original number of 10 sets, he should have actually dialed that number down to about 8 sets when he introduced the other training session that same week.


Since women have a much more difficult time than men when building extreme muscle, this is perhaps the best place to look for a descriptive example of how well this principle works in proper action. The first example that comes to my mind is pro fitness competitor sensation and 2008 Fitness International Champion Kim Scheideler. Though one of the best of all time, Kim is hardly ever the biggest girl on the stage. She doesn’t put on a ton of muscle easily with her body type. Early on in her career, her shoulders were almost a weakness for her, visually. They were a little bony and flat from the sides. But at the 2008 Arnold Sports Festival, she showed obvious massive deltoid improvement that even drew attention from the crowd at the week-ending seminar. Kim showed full, rounded, symmetric deltoids, with perfect proportion and clearly visible rock-hard striations. This was a dramatic departure from past appearances and a major improvement. The “how-to” story is that Kim simply and correctly utilized the concept of proper high-frequency training. While she hit her shoulders with training twice each week, neither session was a full-blown routine. She had the discipline to keep the total number of sets in check and not go overboard.


Again, it takes a tremendous degree of self-control to resist the temptation to do a full-blast routine. People like Kim (and myself) and almost every other committed musclehead out there simply love to train. It’s not our fault. We’re just wired that way. It’s to the point that it’s almost sacrilege to even suggest that we do a little less. But the good news is that it only hurts to get started. After that, you get used to it, because the next session comes up on you pretty quick, so you learn to enjoy the little bit of rest interval prior to the next session.
Keep in mind that I said nothing about dialing down intensity. In fact, your intensity should be very, very high. This is especially true because the routine for that body part will be so much more abbreviated. If intensity is too low, you will turn a muscle-stimulating routine into, at best, maintenance.


Looking back and drawing from my personal experience, I recall stumbling on the benefits of high-frequency training quite serendipitously. As a young teenage bodybuilder back in the ‘80s, I had always wanted a big set of lats. I recall cutting out pictures of Franco Columbu’s lat spread and putting them up on my wall for inspiration, next to my poster of Farrah Fawcett. He had crazy-looking lats that started from his waist and blew out from his sides like a pair of bat wings. I wanted to be wide, wide, wide. So I trained back with a ferocity unmatched by others in the gym. It was my main focus for months. Chins, pulldowns, seated rows, heavy dumbbell rows, T-bars and more; I did it all in my quest for width. I averaged 20-25 sets per workout. Though my back improved after several months, I just wasn’t getting the results I thought I would.


Then I met Dave “Onions” Goodman. Onions was a serious rock-climber who had the freaky ability, and even freakier desire, to eat a whole onion like an apple. Gregg Valentino gave him his appropriate nickname. At any rate, for a guy who wasn’t even a bodybuilder, his lats were absolutely insane and the envy of every guy in the gym. Yet, in support of his sport, all he did to train his back was wide-grip chins. Having grown tired of my tedious routine and despondent over my poor return on investment in over-the-top back training, I gave it up and just hung with Dave. I figured it didn’t matter, because my lats weren’t growing much anyway. Add to that, girls loved Dave and would always hang around him, so it was an added incentive to stick with him for his workouts. All we would do were chins. Mostly wide-grip and some with a moderate grip, but after getting strong enough, I started hanging weight off my belt for added resistance. Usually we would get in about 8 to 10 sets. Along with a set or two of dumbbell pullovers to finish, this was all we would do for back. We did this on average twice every week to 10 days. I loved it because it was such a departure from my previous efforts on back, plus I just loved hanging with Onions!
Then, after a few months, I got a big surprise— big lats. I’m not kidding, either. It was literally a shock when they arrived. I mean it was like just one day and pow! They were there. Guys at the gym commented first. Even my mother noticed! I was so excited that I had to repeatedly stare at them in these mirrors I had rigged up in my basement so I could see my lats. It was the fastest I ever remember a muscle responding. I felt like one of those chicks after getting a boob job and the wraps finally come off. The difference here was that my lats didn’t come courtesy of any plastic surgeon. In sharp contrast, they were the result of me having inadvertently applied an advanced training technique.


Perhaps the most enjoyable part of this experience was the fact that prior to my training with Onions, I had worked so hard, to no avail. It wasn’t until I backed off the number of sets and increased the frequency of training that I saw results. So make time to take stock of your routine with special attention to the body parts that are not responding as well as you think they could. Look at the frequency of training and the total number of sets. It might be that high-frequency training is just what the doctor orders.
 
Glad its working for you mate but 6 sets and 2 exercises for back isn't going to be optimal for most people, same with < 3 full body workouts a week. I haven't read FF's but I'm always highly sceptical of those e-mag type articles where the author and the guy they're training don't even look like they lift :\

I do think he does have a point about over training though - a lot of sources would agree. I must admit since doing AGVT I've gained so much more than my normal routine where I definitely over trained. But that's possibly just down to my own training though - I was just using that 1 example as... er.. an example :)
 
There's quite a big focus on legs Paz. i.e. a whole training session for it twice in 10 days. That's 90mins of leg work per session, so quite a fair bit. Sure it can work for other parts of the body, but as you are no doubt aware legs have a huge amount to play in muscle development as they have a very big percentage of your body's muscle mass - the more they are trained the more your body needs to boost everything to rebuild then, thus also raising the levels throughout your body enabling better anabolic responses to training.

However with a leg injury I'd give it a miss until your knee is better really matey - not worth risking it surely?
 
Well I finished the last week of GVT half an hour ago :)

Quite possibly the most difficult thing I've ever done, physically and mentally.

But it's deffinatley worked. My bodyfat has lowered slightly (aided with not a great deal of cardio), definition has improved as a result and have added a fair amount of mass and improved my overall shape. I'm happy with the results but they could have been better If I focused on my diet a bit more, not that it was bad by any means.

Not sure how this has affected by strength though. I'm having 4/5 days off completely bar one or 2 sessions of cardio and will report back in regards to any strength decreases/increases.

Goes to show that hard work = results and that nothing in this game comes easily!

I'd recommend it, but stick with it as I found most of the gains really began to show around 7/8 weeks in. Teaches you a thing or two about form and that you can stick your ego where the sun doesnt shine :p

Finish line coming up for you shortly Freefaller!

Just finished this evening. I can completely echo your results. I'm taking a bit of a rest, but will do some high intensity training before my holiday in 2 weeks - then 2 weeks of sun, sea and erm... relaxation! ;)

I always lean up nicely on holiday and lose all my water retention owing to cortisol levels so will probably look good (with a tan too) after my break., Then 4-5 weeks of regular training (pyramiding etc...) then back onto AGVT with some higher weights and different exercises!

I started bench on 70kg and finished on 105kg
I started squats on 100kg and finishes on 130kg
Front squats 60kg to 85kg
Incline bench 60 to 85
Chins BW to BW+12.5
DLs 110 to 140

So not big numbers really for me but damn the volume was tough even with those weights! I can't wait to do it again! I will start 10-20kg higher than my starting weights before as I think I probably could do with a bit more weight.
 
Definitely.

I've learned all about slow eccentrics and strict rests/pauses.

4 sets are going to be soooo nice to do again! Full body workout next week - can't wait! :D

Powercleans, t-bar rows and all my other favourite exercises will be back baby! :D
 
I'm going to start with a 10kg plate methinks and a towel, and do side raises, front raises, and back raises... see how that goes. 3 sets of 8.
 
Are you referring to normal or wholemeal? I'm trying to differentiate between the two, or more specifically work out if there's a signficant advantage to eating the wholemeal derivative over and above eating normal.

Both, but wholemeal is obviously slightly better. :) But I don't make a difference, I prefer the taste of the regular stuff, it's still better for you than white pasta and rice. :)
 
1st day back from having finished AGVT and though I'd give a chest day a go... Well boy did it go well! :D

Went up to 140kg for 2 on my 5th set, then dropped back to 80 for 12 for a DS. :cool:

Up to 25kg dips on 5th set too for 8 reps.

Life is good! :D

AGVT is definitely the way forward - I'll be doing another one in a couple of months after I come back from holiday!
 
Freefaller have you got a link to the routine and plan you used for AVGT? As soon as I've finished this cut I'm going to give it a go

If a beast like yourself gets results from it then it sounds good to me

Haha - I'm no beast, it's hard work though, and although you may think I'm beast like, it nearly broke me a couple of times. IT's not an easy program to do. However if you're honest about it and start a decent weight and do it properly and I mean properly you'll be onto a winner. What's great is that I've not lost any strength so far it seems. But I'm doing a full body week and hammer myself before the holiday on the 18th before I make the final verdict on that! ;)

I followed this programme:

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_...g_performance/advanced_german_volume_training

but I modified the exercises to suit me.

I loved the push/pull split though. Good stuff.

I liked the slow eccentrics and the powerful concentrics. I liked the short pauses. I like the sheer volume of work done. It is without a doubt a hard push. And doing some ancillary exercises, like shoulders and powercleans or supersets etc... can work, but man it's hard work. You need teh rest days. You NEEED the rest days. I've had doms for 60 days straight pretty much. I'm slightly broken, have tendinitis in my left arm (carried on though - which is daft, but I really pushed it).

Results were, a good honest 6lbs lean gained, 0.5% bodyfat reduction. My vascularity although minimal has clearly improved (to me - I can see it) - it's a bit of a shock not doing it anymore!
 
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