The all things Anime related thread.

[Alexrose1uk]

The artifacts appears to be related to the fact mpc-hc doesn't appear to detect hi10 properly and seemingly tries to decode it as per a normal 8bit video (as highlighted in my testing by the fact it still lists DXVA active which it doesn't if you try a non compatible file)

That is why you get artifacts, which can go from not too bad to horrendous looking, dependant on the videos use of hi10.

The hardware ASIC on the current gpus is not compatible with 10bit decoding so until this changes, distorted decoding at best is all that can be produced without using a software decoding solution.

 

[lsg1r]

Luckily I'm not bothered about file size and would rather have non hi10p h264 anyways as it uses the gpu in my pc and my samsung tv supports it too lol.

No doubt mpc-hc will get fixed to detect hi10p properly or even work the gpu at some point although by that time there will likely be some new 'improved' codec out there

EDIT: and there appears to be a new shark007 pack out, typical timing, couldn't have been a few days ago when I was installing everything lol, which may fix some of the issues....

 

[memyselfandi]

On the PC, (although 99% on my computer based watching is on the Mac using Plex and that doesn't support hi10p at all (nor 24bit FLAC)), I just install the latest CCCP which installs a 1.5.3.x (beta I assume) release of MPC-HC as part of the install.

The only tweaking I do is enable the tickbox in the second page to give access to the codecs in Windows Media Player.

Didn't notice any pixelation when I was testing it at the weekend. But I do prefer using 8bit encoded files as Plex handles them fine.

 

[saitrix]

I can see this taking a while for the switchover considering you cannot use your gpu to decode the video! All those nettop's won't handle it unless they get it working on current gpus. Though I will admit I don't know whether it can be fixed with drivers.

 

[lsg1r]

you might be suprised about the 'switchover', at least 1 fansub I know of is supposedly switching fully to hi10p as of this season, another is already offering hi10p alongside regular h264. Even though most people are commenting that they don't want it just yet lol

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Yeah, although you lose hardware accelleration (until the hardware catches up) I can see why groups are switching to it regardless as it does definately offer benefits.

It actually kinda reminds me of the XVID/DIVX to .264 swapover to some extent, as its a similar scenario where the new format cannot be offloaded to hardware, and requires more CPU effort than the previous incarnation, however the potential benefits are meaning encoders are starting to use it, even if it is a 'bit early'.

Part of the reason I opted to upgrade my HTPC now was because the time seemed right, and the 'age of 10bit' was incoming.
As it stands, I don't have very much 10bit material, but I DO get the potential benefits:

Better picture quality, even without 10bit screens:
The increase in colour precision means that the picture is smoother (and I've seen this myself); and eliminates things like banding. Normally encoders try and avoid banding by using dithering, but this increases the bitrate required and is affectively a bandaid of the issue, rather than a fundamental fix.

Smaller file sizes:
The bitrate needed to achieve equivalent picture quality is reduced, due to the reduction in the need for dithering etc. You can either use an equivalent bitrate and get a BETTER picture, or an equivalent quality picture with a lower bandwidth, as the compression is simply better. (A recent C.Girls release is a good example of this, the standard 1080p release is about 21GB, the 10bit version is about 12GB, and apparently looks very slightly better to boot!)


In most cases, better picture quality, whilst sporting smaller file sizes is the holy grail of video compression users; like usual the offset is the increase in processing required to decode the video.

 

[lsg1r]

Don't get me wrong, I know that hi10p has a lot of benefits but those benefits mean nothing if you can't play them smoothly, which is the main issue for some people who rely on gpu acceleration. Just think of the amount of people using net tops with nvidia gpu's as the h264 decoding is offloaded.

Personally I'd never go that low end myself and I'm hoping to build a smaller itx htpc by the end of the year based on a tri or quad core llano so I'm looking at it like this, if I can play stuff on my x2 then llano will be fine

Anyways the new update from shark007 seems to have fixed the artefacts in 1 hi10p video (dantalion no shoka) but not the other (Busou Shinki Moon Angel). Mind you the one with the blocking is an older encode so it's possible it's the encoding at fault.
But as I've said I'll still pick normal h264 as I still have gpu acceleration for that which means my pc is happy

EDIT: Looks like I've got rid of ALL the artefacts by using LAV codec for h264 from shark007 3.08, even uses my gpu for normal h264 by the low cpu usage....
H264 tab is now set to use ffdshow with multithreading (normal box ticked), MPC HC is "do not use" and h264 in directshow players is now lav (config has hardware decoding disabled) even though I'm using an ati card....

32bit looks a little different setting wise but as my focus is on 64bit playback that doesn't matter

CPU Usage from same video just different encodes, both 720p - h264=20%, hi10p=40%.... Can't get much better than that lol

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Hehe, now you probably why I'm using it [LAV] for Hi10p instead of allowing MPC-HC's decoder near it til they update that Although I'm not convinced it's necessarily using GPU decoding, at least on the system I use to most of my testing before shifting to HTPC.

I was using a Hi10p Oremo OP test clip, which artifacts horribly on non-100% 10bit compliant, but looks *really* smooth with LAV. Really gives you an idea of how smooth the picture can be in terms of colours with Hi10p.

Edit: Listening to a Ghibli Soundtrack I found, and it includes some collaborations and 'restyles', which goes from all sorts like Punk rock to Jazz. Some of them like the Arriety theme redone, actually sound quite good, very relaxing.

Here's a youtube link to the one mentioned above

There's also another remix of the track (again Youtube to the rescue below haha), but a slightly different jazz-esque style, and with the vocals translated into English. Kinda nice to be able to listen to the track and understand the meanings behind the vocals.

Sorry, I'm a music guy, so good soundtracks and remixes 'do' it for me

 

[lsg1r]

I had stayed away from lav as I'd read horror stories about it and certain configs but it turns out that was more the splitter than the codec...still using haali splitter though. At the end of the day it's literally a case of if it all works in windows 64bit then leave it alone as unfortunately 64bit codecs are only now truely catching up with 32bit (still no realplayer for example - luckily no great loss lol)

As to the gpu side of things, 99% certain it is in mine as 720p h264 used to use 70-80% when it was purely cpu... unless codecs have improved enough to drop the cpu usage to 20% it has to be offsetting to the gpu...

 

[Alexrose1uk]

To be honest, even though I use a 64bit OS on all my machines, I still use 32bit players and codecs, there's just no benefit in 64bit decoding right now.

 

[memyselfandi]

Hmmm ... I really need to reinstall the downstairs HTPC soon (forgetting anime playback its PVR functionality is up the creek from all the channel retune changes) ... may have to look at putting the Shark007 back on it and having a play, (it's a good solid C2D with ATI graphics so can handle most things (although it is in need of a bit more memory so I'm dropping in another couple of GB).

 

[lsg1r]

To be honest, even though I use a 64bit OS on all my machines, I still use 32bit players and codecs, there's just no benefit in 64bit decoding right now.

I use Windows Media Center with mediabrowser. Never seemed to like xmbc and boxee is just so sluggish in the menu's while mediabrowser gives all the shiney bits (that I'm interested in) from xmbc but with the smoothness of media center.

Only downside is that I need to use 64bit codecs due to mediacenter being 64bit

 

[saitrix]

Well the only thing is, I can't see anything not being available in h264 yet. Maybe give it a few seasons and then it could start changing. I'm holding out for Ivy Bridge and make an itx system around that. Apparently it should do gpu 24p perfectly which will be brilliant for the h264 stuff. Plus I want to goto a 24/7 system so a low idle power is a must. Which Sandy Bridge is currently at the 20W area, will be interesting to see what the process change will do.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

There's plenty of other reencoding groups out there as well, so someone will always do a non-hi10p version; but whether it'll be the *best* version anymore; that's something different.

AFAIK Hi10p is now more or less a finalised spec and there are regular builds out of DarkShikari and the guys who build x264 (and has been for some time), in the same sense as 8bit is final, but has been having improvements and bugfixes made to it for years. What IS fairly recent is decoding support - a lot of groups were holding back until it was included in things like the CCCP (as that's the typically recommended anime codec pack and tends to be what support is based on), but as Hi10p decoding was included in the recent build, and has been supported by some players for a while, I think groups are starting to move in on it now.

It takes some time to build a hardware decoding unit; so I doubt we'll see any decent Hi10p hardware accelleration for at least a year or two.


In other news finally started watching Durarara again with my younger brother, as we stopped about half way through. Should have it finished in the next week.
I'm not sure what it is about it, but something hasn't quite sold me to the series, it's not bad, but I'm just not finding the enthusiasm or draw from it in the same way as I've had from other series I've really enjoyed, although I recognise it's not actually a bad series.

Kinda hard to explain.

 

[memyselfandi]

In other news finally started watching Durarara again with my younger brother, as we stopped about half way through. Should have it finished in the next week.
I'm not sure what it is about it, but something hasn't quite sold me to the series, it's not bad, but I'm just not finding the enthusiasm or draw from it in the same way as I've had from other series I've really enjoyed, although I recognise it's not actually a bad series.

Kinda hard to explain.

I know what you mean ... Durarararara is a series which seems that it should be good but just doesn't really pull you in like some others have done ...

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Trying to make it through then it'll be the Bakemono rewatch I think. Still plugging slowly through Yoiko as my solo project, will probably finish that soonish then move onto something I enjoy more, might try Ryukkan Samurai Girls (or whatever it was called) or 12 Kingdoms.

 

[lsg1r]

Hyakka Ryōran Samurai Girls is a nice little series in my view. It does have one downside - lots of 'ink splodges' instead of steam/light rays in the tv series... there is a lot of skin shown in the series

 

[memyselfandi]

Samurai Girls was quite a fun series if I remember correctly; the ink splotches on broadcast were a pain but of course the media release is better Art style was ... interesting at times ... but generally quite a good show. I think I've already expressed my dubiousness towards 12 Kingdoms ...

Finished a re-watch all the way through the series of Hanasaku Iroha earlier this evening. I really like the series with it's gentle humour and light drama combined with really nice visuals. It also manages, for the most part, to avoid using fanservice to move things along which is nice.

Also finished watching Ikoku Meiro no Croisee. Very odd little series about a little Japanese girl who comes to live with a blacksmith and his grandfather in Paris in the 1800's. Very small cast and not really much that happens but it was a nice gentle series to watch. Reminded me very much of A__a in general overall feel. There were times when the series could have descended into silliness or heavy drama but the series managed to avoid them all and gently float along for the most part.

 

[saitrix]

I have just started watching Shinryaku! Ika Musume first series. So far liking it after 2 episodes, a nice easy to watch program which you can relax to.

Also just finished A-Channel, really did like the series. Enjoyed it a lot more than I expected, I thought it would be a 'filler' sort of series to me but it certainly surprised me. Found it really funny at parts, more so than I found Nichijou and similar level to Baka to Test. Worth a watch if you want a comedy slice of life.

 

[memyselfandi]

Shinryaku! Ika Musume is a nice fun series, it's good that it's got a second series and that season 1 is already being released on R1.

I really liked A Channel too ... personally I rate it quite a bit higher than Baka to Test, but slightly comedic slice of life is one of my preferred genres. It would be nice if Yen Press picked up the manga release for it.