*** The AMD RDNA 4 Rumour Mill ***

[TNA]

Basically Tommy saying 90% of the market only wants nvidia. Lol.

Load of tripe if you ask me. What people want is for AMD to be competitive.

They need to make a card that is desirable. How about they catch up with DLSS, FG, RT or beat it even?

No one here seems to acknowledge this here. But as I said above, market share doesn't lie.

Yes there are brain washed people who would go nvidia no matter what, but that ain't 90% of the market ffs.

 

[TNA]

Funny thing is if Intel had high performance GPUs and I decided I want to switch from Nvidia, I'm more likely to try an Intel than AMD

And why is that?

 

[Phixsator]

Basically Tommy saying 90% of the market only wants nvidia. Lol.

Load of tripe if you ask me. What people want is for AMD to be competitive. -"I would argue that they are"

They need to make a card that is desirable. How about they catch up with DLSS, FG, RT or beat it even? -"So if AMD has to match current nvidia at less than half the budget, why isn't nvidias solutions 2 or 3 times better than what they provide now? At least to some of us AMDs offerings are more desirable. Most of us has also put FOMO back on the shelve."

No one here seems to acknowledge this here. But as I said above, market share doesn't lie. -"You can extrapolate a lot of different opinions from market data. For a more complete and imho honest picture you would have to dig a fair bit deeper than just glossing over the 90% number"

Yes there are brain washed people who would go nvidia no matter what, but that ain't 90% of the market ffs. -"I agree, 90% of the buyers aren't brainwashed but the majority is ignorant of the products available and depend on buying advice from people who a lot of the time have their own biases or who themselves doesn't know all that they should given their position"

Spoiler: Wall of text. Remember coffee before reading :P

Not sure I entirely agree with that though if I have understood you correctly. A majority of those 90% are people with no clue nor interest in computers outside of turning it on to play a game or use it for work. They are the kind who will buy whatever the salesperson in their local store tells them to. I've seen it and heard it so many times. I've even tested my presumptions and they have hold water almost every single time. I've had a lot of sales personal not having a clue what or who AMD or Radeon is. So on this alone its rather obvious why many ends up with a geforce card in their system. Now you can perhaps fault AMD for not trying harder to make themselves known but it has next to nothing to do with their hardware or software can actually offer. I simply don't buy that the same people who cannot tell if the monitor is running 60hz or 120hz is able to tell a difference between FSR 3 or DLSS when playing a game or even have a clue what RT means. The same people who would put on a turtlebeach headset and say: "WauW amazing sound".. nope not buying it.

For a company that isn't even half the size of nvidia to manage to deliver a product that is roughly overall 80% of nvidias best offering(hardware and software with some software parts actually being better imho) for almost half the money. Pretty decent and desirable in my book were it not for GPU pricing overall being horrible.

For me personally AMD is the default gaming option and for me to consider nvidia the price/performance has to be a lot better which is unlikely to ever happen. The sole reason for this is I simply distrust nvidia so much and they are so fast to "#!"# over their costumers with silly limitations(I've been f over when I had a gtx 780, a 980ti and again on a RTX 3070 enough is enough). Doesn't mean btw that I trust AMD. I don't. However, they been fare less problematic for me and the few times where they might have tried to do some funny business with their drivers they buckled under pressure from the community rather fast. Nvidia just don't give a f f. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised, since we all have a vague idea about how poor pricing is gonna be for the 5090, that nvidia will drum up a "killer" feature that will be locked to the 5000 series, just to compel 4090 owners to upgrade. It will be Turing all over again.

 

[StarShock]

Thing is there's a really good chance that in February the 8800xt and the 5070 will launch, they will have very comparable performance and the amd card will be £50 cheaper with more vram. And everyone will complain that the amd card is too expensive. And this big old circular argument will go on. Do you know who can easily with barely a wave of thier hand make amd drop their prices. Nvidia. If the 5070 launches at £400 the 8800xt will be £350 and we'll all still complain that amd is too expensive

 

[Grim5]

Thing is there's a really good chance that in February the 8800xt and the 5070 will launch, they will have very comparable performance and the amd card will be £50 cheaper with more vram. And everyone will complain that the amd card is too expensive. And this big old circular argument will go on. Do you know who can easily with barely a wave of thier hand make amd drop their prices. Nvidia. If the 5070 launches at £400 the 8800xt will be £350 and we'll all still complain that amd is too expensive

Intel just launched a card that's $50 cheaper than Nvidia and everyone is saying it's the best thing once slice bread and the card is sold out everywhere.. but the Intel card is also 20% faster than the Nvidia. That's where AMD got it wrong, Intel is getting praised because it's faster and cheaper, where is AMD loses because it's only cheaper


So yes, if the 8800xt is $50 cheaper than the Nvidia equivalent and they both have identical performance then sure, AMD will get hammered again, the 8800xt needs to be faster than the Nvidia equivalent

 

[TNA]

Spoiler: Wall of text. Remember coffee before reading :P

Not sure I entirely agree with that though if I have understood you correctly. A majority of those 90% are people with no clue nor interest in computers outside of turning it on to play a game or use it for work. They are the kind who will buy whatever the salesperson in their local store tells them to. I've seen it and heard it so many times. I've even tested my presumptions and they have hold water almost every single time. I've had a lot of sales personal not having a clue what or who AMD or Radeon is. So on this alone its rather obvious why many ends up with a geforce card in their system. Now you can perhaps fault AMD for not trying harder to make themselves known but it has next to nothing to do with their hardware or software can actually offer. I simply don't buy that the same people who cannot tell if the monitor is running 60hz or 120hz is able to tell a difference between FSR 3 or DLSS when playing a game or even have a clue what RT means. The same people who would put on a turtlebeach headset and say: "WauW amazing sound".. nope not buying it.

For a company that isn't even half the size of nvidia to manage to deliver a product that is roughly overall 80% of nvidias best offering(hardware and software with some software parts actually being better imho) for almost half the money. Pretty decent and desirable in my book were it not for GPU pricing overall being horrible.

For me personally AMD is the default gaming option and for me to consider nvidia the price/performance has to be a lot better which is unlikely to ever happen. The sole reason for this is I simply distrust nvidia so much and they are so fast to "#!"# over their costumers with silly limitations(I've been f over when I had a gtx 780, a 980ti and again on a RTX 3070 enough is enough). Doesn't mean btw that I trust AMD. I don't. However, they been fare less problematic for me and the few times where they might have tried to do some funny business with their drivers they buckled under pressure from the community rather fast. Nvidia just don't give a f f. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised, since we all have a vague idea about how poor pricing is gonna be for the 5090, that nvidia will drum up a "killer" feature that will be locked to the 5000 series, just to compel 4090 owners to upgrade. It will be Turing all over again.

You and I obviously have different books. I personally don't care for either company. I just buy what I fancy. Don't care if nvidia have been dodgy and AMD less dodgy in the past. Used to, but now feel life is to short for stuff like that.

As for the marketshare, I disagree again that 90% of people will only buy Nvidia. If they price it right and get great reviews and a buzz from people from launch that number would change.

AMD need to do well multiple generations back to back and that would slowly change mind share. Let's not make it sound like a impossible task.

But none of that matters here on this forum. You have many people like me who have had loads of Radeon cards who end up buying nvidia. That is AMD's fault. If they can't get people like us to buy it...

 

[TNA]

Here is a list of my GPU's. As you can see, loads of red in there. Two of my favourite cards also happen to be the Radeon 9700 Pro and 4870 which were fantastic cards.

RIVA TNT
GeForce4 MX440
Radeon 9700 Pro
GeForce 7900 GT
GeForce 8800 GTS
Radeon 4870
Radeon 5770
Radeon 5850
Radeon 6970
Radeon 7870
Radeon 7950
GeForce 670
Radeon 7970
Radeon 290
Radeon 295x2
GeForce 1070
GeForce 1080
Radeon R9 Nano
Radeon RX Vega Liquid
GeForce 1050
GeForce 980Ti
Nvidia Titan XP
Radeon RX 580
GeForce 970
Radeon RX Vega 56
Radeon RX Vega 64
GeForce 3080
GeForce 3070
GeForce 3080 Ti
GeForce 4070 Ti

 

[StarShock]

Intel just launched a card that's $50 cheaper than Nvidia and everyone is saying it's the best thing once slice bread and the card is sold out everywhere.. but the Intel card is also 20% faster than the Nvidia. That's where AMD got it wrong, Intel is getting praised because it's faster and cheaper, where is AMD loses because it's only cheaper


So yes, if the 8800xt is $50 cheaper than the Nvidia equivalent and they both have identical performance then sure, AMD will get hammered again, the 8800xt needs to be faster than the Nvidia equivalent

You're probably right. People's useless monkey brains don't care about getting a good deal, they only care that the numbers are bigger. As someone said before most people know that nvidia makes the fastest card (4090 currently) so they think that every nvidia card is the fastest. It's really depressing sometimes.

Saw a terrible system on amazon last month with a giant headline title saying "gaming pc with nvidia graphics card!" Has a gt 710 in it. Makes me sad

 

[Troezar]

You're probably right. People's useless monkey brains don't care about getting a good deal, they only care that the numbers are bigger. As someone said before most people know that nvidia makes the fastest card (4090 currently) so they think that every nvidia card is the fastest. It's really depressing sometimes.

Saw a terrible system on amazon last month with a giant headline title saying "gaming pc with nvidia graphics card!" Has a gt 710 in it. Makes me sad

It can also been seen as a competitive advantage. Whilst people are wasting money on worse performance I'm saving money buying better Of course the smart money, arguably less moral types, are flogging that overpriced, lower performing gear to the masses. Those leather jackets don't buy themselves

 

[Bidley]

Intel just launched a card that's $50 cheaper than Nvidia and everyone is saying it's the best thing once slice bread and the card is sold out everywhere.. but the Intel card is also 20% faster than the Nvidia. That's where AMD got it wrong, Intel is getting praised because it's faster and cheaper, where is AMD loses because it's only cheaper


So yes, if the 8800xt is $50 cheaper than the Nvidia equivalent and they both have identical performance then sure, AMD will get hammered again, the 8800xt needs to be faster than the Nvidia equivalent

In fairness the Intel cards have the massive caveat of being 20% faster than the outgoing generation of Nvidia card. The real test will be against the 5060. But the timing of the release on intel's part is very good as the 5060 probably won't be out until mid 2025.

As an aside, I've nearly always gone with Nvidia as the only experience I had with AMD was an RX580 that had awful driver problems which put me off. I got a 6700XT for the living room setup last year as everyone was saying the price/perf was great and it's been a great experience. Now that it seems PC parts are almost evergreen with last gen or (in AMD's case) the gen before that still being readily available, they form part of the product stack which makes the pricing higher for newer cards. Older cards aren't being replaced, the new cards are simply dropped in at a higher price. I know Nvidia won't give you last gen's 80-class performance at 70-class prices, so I'm hoping AMD will.

 

[Nitefly]

I think maybe AMD suffer on the low cards because of the lingering ‘truth’ that DLSS is the superior upscaling tech.

“Hey - want to buy a mid-tier card that’s inferior at upscaling AND inferior at the new shiny RT technologies?”

Feels too compromised for some? Maybe.

 

[Troezar]

I think maybe AMD suffer on the low cards because of the lingering ‘truth’ that DLSS is the superior upscaling tech.

“Hey - want to buy a mid-tier card that’s inferior at upscaling AND inferior at the new shiny RT technologies?”

Feels too compromised for some? Maybe.

I still find it hilarious that Nvidia created a problem, and then offered the solution, with hardware that can't run their "problem" without their secret sauce software Evil genius springs to mind...

 

[ICDP]

About 7 months after release the 7900 XTX could be bought for £900 and the 7900 XT could be bought for £700 (both with a free game you could use or sell) and people still said they should be cheaper.

Frankly the 7000 series could have been released at those prices and people would still find a reason why they wouldn’t buy AMD.

Even now the rumours of the 8800 XT are about RTX 4080 if it’s £500 or less then let’s see if the usual suspects still find a reason why AMD still suck.

 

[Phixsator]

You and I obviously have different books. I personally don't care for either company. I just buy what I fancy. Don't care if nvidia have been dodgy and AMD less dodgy in the past. Used to, but now feel life is to short for stuff like that.

As for the marketshare, I disagree again that 90% of people will only buy Nvidia. If they price it right and get great reviews and a buzz from people from launch that number would change.

AMD need to do well multiple generations back to back and that would slowly change mind share. Let's not make it sound like a impossible task.

But none of that matters here on this forum. You have many people like me who have had loads of Radeon cards who end up buying nvidia. That is AMD's fault. If they can't get people like us to buy it...

Don't worry about it, I don't spend that much energy on it either. The calculations are done pretty fast when it becomes time to purchase a new GPU. But I am of the belief that if you don't vote with your wallet the companies that takes you for granted will continue to do so for as long as they are in a position to do so. It shouldn't take that much brain power to say no to that. Unless of course one is of the opinion that it is completely fine.

Regarding your marketshare comment, I would argue that history has proven you wrong several times. RX 5000 series was offering very capable and competitive performance for a fair bit less, didn't matter. 6000 series did the same and even took the crown away from the 3090 at times for a lot less money and this was when RT mattered a lot less and DLSS was still a mess, didn't matter. The 290X beating a titan for a lot less money didnt matter either. So my point is, its not about just having a good product for a better price than your competitor when you are up against a company such as nvidia. Its about the perceived value, which can be heavily manipulated given the right marketing.

 

[ICDP]

I think maybe AMD suffer on the low cards because of the lingering ‘truth’ that DLSS is the superior upscaling tech.

“Hey - want to buy a mid-tier card that’s inferior at upscaling AND inferior at the new shiny RT technologies?”

Feels too compromised for some? Maybe.

And yet most people haven’t a clue outside tech forums. Go to a gaming forum on Steam and ALL the posts are about the gameplay and almost nothing about upscaling or RT.

The vast majority are still using 3 or 4 gen old GPUs FFS. They can’t even use DLSS or RT let alone understand what they do.

The reason for AMD losing market share is not technological, it’s marketing.

No viable option low to mid range for OEMs kills them more than all the 4090s sold. Because the vast majority of gaming PCs sold are prebuilds and gaming laptops and Nvidia have market dominance there.

How conceited are tech savvy enthusiasts to assume they are the norm? The vast majority are not buying £500 GPUs, let alone creaming themselves at the prospect of an £1800 4090 or a £2000+ 5090.

 

[TNA]

Don't worry about it, I don't spend that much energy on it either. The calculations are done pretty fast when it becomes time to purchase a new GPU. But I am of the belief that if you don't vote with your wallet the companies that takes you for granted will continue to do so for as long as they are in a position to do so. It shouldn't take that much brain power to say no to that. Unless of course one is of the opinion that it is completely fine.

Regarding your marketshare comment, I would argue that history has proven you wrong several times. RX 5000 series was offering very capable and competitive performance for a fair bit less, didn't matter. 6000 series did the same and even took the crown away from the 3090 at times for a lot less money and this was when RT mattered a lot less and DLSS was still a mess, didn't matter. The 290X beating a titan for a lot less money didnt matter either. So my point is, its not about just having a good product for a better price than your competitor when you are up against a company such as nvidia. Its about the perceived value, which can be heavily manipulated given the right marketing.

I did vote with my wallet. That's why AMD need to do better. I went for a brand new 4070 Ti for £575 over a year ago. Been happy with it. Crazy quiet and efficient card.

RX 5000 series was plagued with the black screen issue. Have you forgot this? Even humbug sold his after a while and went nvidia. Nuff said lol.

Sounds like you are saying AMD should just carry on doing what they are doing. I am saying they need to do better if they want my money. And if they can't get my money fat chance they will improve their market share in a meaningful way.

 

[kieran_read]

That is because the 7900xtx was never a £1000 card. Should have been £800 on release and the same goes for the 4080!

Can't believe what you said is used as a defence point for AMD.

Market share doesn't lie. I have had loads of AMD cards as you very well know, yet I don't see them as an option no more. There is a reason and AMD's market share shows this.

But feel free to pay whatever AMD asks.

100% agree, the current prices are brilliant... if they launched at that, the problem now it's too late as it's at the end of the cyle

Here is a list of my GPU's. As you can see, loads of red in there. Two of my favourite cards also happen to be the Radeon 9700 Pro and 4870 which were fantastic cards.

I had the 4870X2 back in the day for my first computer back when AMD were trying to dies on one card. Weird one was good but got outdated really quickly TBH. 3

I think maybe AMD suffer on the low cards because of the lingering ‘truth’ that DLSS is the superior upscaling tech.

“Hey - want to buy a mid-tier card that’s inferior at upscaling AND inferior at the new shiny RT technologies?”

Feels too compromised for some? Maybe.

Personally I feel if you're buying a card based on FSR or DLSS you're stupid. This technology should be for keeping a card relevant in a few years time, helping it perform better as it's aging helping to extend it's life.

If you're buying a card today for DLSS or FSR you're basically buying a card that is unable to run the games you want, at the settings you want so what's the point of buying it in the first place? it just means it will age and be out-dated even faster and be out paced by older better cards. Just look at the 4060 vs the 3060 with VRAM.

Nvidia are playing this brilliantly to extract as much money as they can buy people who don't understand technology. Release a worse card than the previous gen (4060 vs 3060) but give DLSS to make it have higher frames than the last gen, but then deny the last gen from that same technology to give the illusion of progress. Hook Line and Sinker.

Then again that's just my opinion on upscaling tech, some people swear by it, and buy based on that, no idea if I'm in the minority with that line of thinking .

 

[TNA]

If AMD carry on like this give it a few gens and Intel might have more market share.

 

[gpuerrilla]

I still find it hilarious that Nvidia created a problem, and then offered the solution, with hardware that can't run their "problem" without their secret sauce software Evil genius springs to mind...

The best part is people think you now have to have upscaling. Although kieran summarised this already very well.

Personally I feel if you're buying a card based on FSR or DLSS you're stupid. This technology should be for keeping a card relevant in a few years time, helping it perform better as it's aging helping to extend it's life.

If you're buying a card today for DLSS or FSR you're basically buying a card that is unable to run the games you want, at the settings you want so what's the point of buying it in the first place? it just means it will age and be out-dated even faster and be out paced by older better cards. Just look at the 4060 vs the 3060 with VRAM.

Nvidia are playing this brilliantly to extract as much money as they can buy people who don't understand technology. Release a worse card than the previous gen (4060 vs 3060) but give DLSS to make it have higher frames than the last gen, but then deny the last gen from that same technology to give the illusion of progress. Hook Line and Sinker.

 

[ICDP]

I know, so called enthusiasts who are happy a GPU isn’t fast enough, so they now factor in “upscaling” as a desirable feature. You literally couldn’t make it up. So much for laughing at console owners for all those years.

I like upscaling if it works well, fair enough. But I would far prefer a GPU that could run native without breaking a sweat.