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I've owned an RX 5700 and the black screen issue, while there in the beginning, it was sorted. But sure, it was annoying and frustrating when it happened, still that card held on for quiet a while after providing solid results and even matching the 1080ti in the end. However I would say that having constant microstutter for the first 6 months non stop on my 980ti was a whole lot worse as it was all the time until nvidia decided to fix it. And while I didn't own a RTX 2000 series card, I'm pretty sure that the 2080ti space invader problem was less than desirable which wasn't fixable through software. There were of course also the broken RT promises of the Turing age not helped by DLSS results at the time. Maybe you've forgotten? or is it only one company that is allowed to have lackluster launches?
. And since 6000 series didn't really have much to harp on you conveniently skipped that. I mean that would have been an excellent time to give team red a try, equal or better raster performance for less and power consumption was good to, unless its not really about the actual hardware or software but more about something else? But let that be
. Lets just be honest with ourselves. AMD could offer you a 1 to 1 competitor to the 4090, same RT performance, same upscaler, same raster performance, same powerdraw and for 10% less and you wouldnt touch it
. There would still be "something" wrong. Its fine m8. You do you. I get it.. the enthralling looks of leather jacket wearing Jensen singing along to his AI song while trying to convince everyone that buying is saving. Now this last bit is of course me having a bit of fun poking you. Don't take it too serious, I mean nothing of it. Wish you a good day I'm personally done with the conversation.PS: 575 for a 4070ti? Not too bad considering the current market. They were around 800 where I live at that time. Then again 575 is around what I paid for a 1080ti flagship at launch. To pay the same for a 2 tier down GPU really shows how silly the market has become and that goes for all the players btw not just team green.
If only this were actually true, the B580 is little more than marginally faster than the 4060 and the same price.
The 7800 XT was a similar amount faster than the 4070 and $100 cheaper, it got at best a lukewarm reception, half of them still hated on it, the difference in how they treat AMD vs Intel is night and day, its blatantly hypocritical and it is the reason there is no competition.
Right now AMD's GPU's are an average of 25% cheaper than Nvidia, they still aren't selling, is that still a problem with AMD or is there something else going on?
Not sure why the video reviewers are going wild for this - it's 5% better than a 4060 (and in the UK is still the same price)
Intel Arc B580 Review - Excellent Value
The next-generation Intel Arc graphics cards are here! The B580, powered by the Battlemage architecture, is priced at a highly competitive $250. Testing in our review confirms that Intel's new card outperforms both NVIDIA's GeForce RTX 4060 and AMD's RX 7600, and it now supports frame generation...www.techpowerup.com
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7% average in Techspot's review
Intel Arc B580 Review: Best Value GPU
PC gaming gets a boost with Intel's Arc B580, a $250 GPU that beats the RTX 4060 and RX 7600. Featuring 12GB VRAM, Xe2 architecture, and built...www.techspot.com
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The point I was making was not whether upscaling tech is needed / wanted for the future, but it being damaging to AMD that Nvidia’s DLSS is ‘widely known’ to be vastly superior than AMD’s own FSR. This might be having a lingering impact on how people assume quality varies between the brands.
If you’re buying a mid range card, I would assume these things might be important if you want to play next gen games - I imagine most people use upscaling for things like Cyberpunk with a midrange card - but I cannot say myself.
But, maybe that knowledge is known amongst tech enthusiasts only. I sort of assume that most PC gamers are tech enthusiasts, to some degree!
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Lets just be honest with ourselves. AMD could offer you a 1 to 1 competitor to the 4090, same RT performance, same upscaler, same raster performance, same powerdraw and for 10% less and you wouldnt touch it
That is where you are wrong. That is exactly what AMD used to do and I kept going red.
It was a good deal 13 months ago in the current market yeah
And yes to pay that much for 2 tiers down is messed up. Yet when I say Nvidia are changing silly moneys and AMD should not copy them and charge us decent prices people like yourself seem to get upset for some reason. Like wtf.
Is it really so bad to say 7900XTX should have been £800 on launch? People get upset when I say it
It doesn't justify a significant price difference between the two tho, the danger was always overhyping a feature to the point of anything without that branding being entirely uncompetitive and with that prices running out of control, DLSS "adding 30% value" actual Hardware Unboxed quote is exactly how Nvidia see this branding, tech jurno marketing made that happen.
What boggles my mind is that no one calls them out on it... Do we like overpriced GPU's?
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Is it really so bad to say 7900XTX should have been £800 on launch? People get upset when I say it
Its less than that now, against £1000 4080, the 7900 XT is £600 against £800 4070 Ti, my 7800 XT with a few tweaks is just as fast as a 4070 Ti, its £450.
None of these GPU's are selling, now what?
I suppose that some consumers, like me, are in the mindset of either: “pay for the best and enjoy it” or “compromising on price by paying more is generally better than compromising on performance / quality.” I’m inevitably going to get a 5090 - my way of ‘budgeting’ for - or justifying - the purchase is to try not to buy every gen. OK, I did buy several 4090s but the coil whine was total **** so they all went back… my approach to not buying counts!
I’m not entirely sure how this scales to the mid-range cards, but maybe the same applies, to some people. In which case, traditional ideals of ‘value’ get shifted around a bit. However, I don’t deny that some mid-range Nvidia cards seem poor value… I don’t think I’d buy them!
Associate
100% that you would think that, however I can promise you we are the overwhelming minority it's not even close to how little people really know about tech we're probably the 1%, christ even most people who watch videos like LTT and such know very little, we live in a TikTok generation where critical thinking doesn't exist, people want a 60 second video to be told what's best without understanding why, how, and what the difference is.
I disagree with DLSS being "Vastly Superior" though it is for that 1% sure no doubt those people will comb through a screenshot for an hour just to find a problem to pick at, but for the 99% if it wasn't for someone pointing at it, putting that big red circle around something that people like to do now they wouldn't notice a difference between FSR and DLSS, even if you had them running side to side, they would still need to be educated on what to look at and I doubt they could do it independently.
The reason DLSS is "Vastly Superior" is frankly because DLSS won marketing that's it. TechTubers need something to point at and say "look this is better" it's how they get views I'm not disputing that information is incorrect, but when in the video when they have to look at a pole in the side of the screen and then zoom in 300% to point at how DLSS is better... I'm sorry but 99% people wouldn't not give a flying pig about that nor even notice it.
I would say the difference between DLSS and FSR is comparable to the difference between Streaming on Netflix and watching a Blu-Ray. Sure Blu-Ray is better but aint nobody doing that anymore Streaming is taking over end of story.
Of course it would be nice to have a better FSR that's closer to performance and it's 100% true about it being damaging to AMD, but it's only damaging because the marketing won I do think that if people use FSR they would be in general fine with it.
You're never going to please the 1% and the super hardcore gamers who need 241fps because there friend only has 239fps but the money isn't with them.
I suppose that some consumers, like me, are in the mindset of either: “pay for the best and enjoy it” or “compromising on price by paying more is generally better than compromising on performance / quality.” I’m inevitably going to get a 5090 - my way of ‘budgeting’ for - or justifying - the purchase is to try not to buy every gen. OK, I did buy several 4090s but the coil whine was total **** so they all went back… my approach to not buying counts!
I’m not entirely sure how this scales to the mid-range cards, but maybe the same applies, to some people. In which case, traditional ideals of ‘value’ get shifted around a bit. However, I don’t deny that some mid-range Nvidia cards seem poor value… I don’t think I’d buy them!
I honestly don't think people understand value, a lot of people buy because they are told something is better. If you only play say strategy games at 1080p and you only have a 60hz monitor... do you really need anything other than an old 1080ti? probably not, people will still spend £600 on a 4070 though.
I think this scales worse at mid-range cards. Realistically if you can afford a 4090/5090 the chances are you have as 4k 144hz monitor so you can take full advantage of that performance. The lower down the chain you get it's less likely that the monitors people own can take advantage. I know I used to be ignorant with a 60hz 1080p monitor and being happy with 100fps+ even though that doesn't translate to what i'm seeing, there's a lot of people like that, "eyes can't see past 60fps" ... yeh because you only have a 60hz monitor you donut.
I'm 100% buying a card in January, I'm actually a little worried about the Tump Tariffs, and I have a gut feeling we will have that impact us as well with higher prices, just because companies will want to offset their losses onto other markets.
For me I place value on needs, I have a 144hz 4k Monitor, so i'm looking for 4080 level of performance.
I've decided I'm going to buy the 5080 or the 8800xt. (Possibly the 7900xtx if they comes back in stock at an even lower price like the 6950xt did, honestly I regret not buying a 6950xt for £500 that turned out to be the best deal on the market!)
Ill be waiting to see the difference between price and performance of those two cards, if the 5080 comes out for around the £1000 I will consider it, if it ends up being £1200-£1300+ then it's out of play. Id be looking at around £600-£700 for a decent AIB 8800XT should that perform around the 4080/7900xtx level.
I suppose that some consumers, like me, are in the mindset of either: “pay for the best and enjoy it” or “compromising on price by paying more is generally better than compromising on performance / quality.” I’m inevitably going to get a 5090 - my way of ‘budgeting’ for - or justifying - the purchase is to try not to buy every gen. OK, I did buy several 4090s but the coil whine was total **** so they all went back… my approach to not buying counts!
I’m not entirely sure how this scales to the mid-range cards, but maybe the same applies, to some people. In which case, traditional ideals of ‘value’ get shifted around a bit. However, I don’t deny that some mid-range Nvidia cards seem poor value… I don’t think I’d buy them!
I get the 4090 and i don't begrudge people buying it, its the best you can get, you have the money for it why not? i get it.
Recent GPU history.
GTX 970
GTX 1070 < great GPU
RTX 2070S
Skipped the 3070
4070 like the 3070 was overpriced garbage, the RT is next to useless, just as it is on the RX 7800 XT, the one thing it has going for it is DLSS but its really not a good GPU and priced for its DLSS / Nvidia branding, the 7800 XT is much better as a GPU, and it was a whole lot cheaper. So i bought it despite most tech jurnoes telling me i should spend more money on the 4070.
That's where we are now at, and years of this nonsense is why there isn't a market for anything other than Nvidia.
6 Moths of ownership with this AMD GPU now, i love it, its a fantastic thing and solid.
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Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 30,960
Yup love the XTX too, great cards.
@kieran_read thanks for the reply. In my (albeit limited) experience, FSR has generally looked observably softer / noisier compared to DLSS - no zooming required! It only really matters significantly in games that have lots of detail that’s pleasing to see - otherwise both do the ‘job’ of ‘more frames’.
Soldato
- Joined
- 28 May 2007
- Posts
- 10,158
I don't think it is in dispute that fsr is inferior to Dlss and Rt on Nvidia is better. What i wonder is how many people by an inferior Nvidia card for everything else for more money when they most likely don't use these features ie each tier AMD are faster for less money with more Vram 4090 aside. AMD as a standard card are better and offer more. It's only if you want upscaling and a chance to use RT does it make sense to pay the Nvidia tax.
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Because people are being told DLSS is everything, anything else is worthless.
Yeah I decided to do my own research on how much DLSS and FSR differ to me in real terms. I honestly couldn't see any difference. I can't see much difference between DLSS performance, quality or native if I'm honest. The extra frames are far more impactful.
Soldato
Do these Moths come with the AMD card?
Maybe we should just let people buy what they want and not try to tell anyone they're wrong or they could've got something better. Maybe it's objectively better but not better for them, different people will have different needs. Also, and I think this can play a part in this (as with other things), sometimes people have a bad experience with a brand and that puts them off. I have friends that had troubles with AMD cards in the past so now they prefer to buy Nvidia, I think people on here have probably had similar or opposite experiences which will add to their bias. Had had poor experiences with Gigabyte and MSI motherboards in the past so I've been reluctant to try them again, even though they might be better than the Asus and ASRock boards I've bought instead.
There's so many factors that might affect this that we can't know about, it's not going to be the same for everyone.
I don't think there's an easy answer for AMD, I'm sure if there was they'd have done it. I'm sure somebody there has considered "make them cheaper" but it's not that simple and making them better is easier said than done. I know AMD have a smaller budget than Nvidia, but that's not really a consumer concern, we just care about how good the end product is not how good it is considering...
Do these Moths come with the AMD card?
Maybe we should just let people buy what they want and not try to tell anyone they're wrong or they could've got something better. Maybe it's objectively better but not better for them, different people will have different needs. Also, and I think this can play a part in this (as with other things), sometimes people have a bad experience with a brand and that puts them off. I have friends that had troubles with AMD cards in the past so now they prefer to buy Nvidia, I think people on here have probably had similar or opposite experiences which will add to their bias. Had had poor experiences with Gigabyte and MSI motherboards in the past so I've been reluctant to try them again, even though they might be better than the Asus and ASRock boards I've bought instead.
There's so many factors that might affect this that we can't know about, it's not going to be the same for everyone.
I don't think there's an easy answer for AMD, I'm sure if there was they'd have done it. I'm sure somebody there has considered "make them cheaper" but it's not that simple and making them better is easier said than done. I know AMD have a smaller budget than Nvidia, but that's not really a consumer concern, we just care about how good the end product is not how good it is considering...
No but we should care about tech jurnoes pushing the prices of these things up.
Soldato
Do you think they have that much power? When they say things are overpriced or bad it doesn't seem to have any effect. Most of them didn't and don't like the 4060 but that didn't stop it being the most popular GPU of the generation based on the Steam hardware survey.
Associate
- Joined
- 1 Oct 2020
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- 1,205
I looked at the two, and found DLSS to be better, but FSR was far from useless. Had it on F1 2022, and the more I had to upscale, the worse rain looked on FSR. At highest performance levels (ie greatest level of upscaling) , it was really off putting.
However, if you were using FSR quality, very little in it.