The Big WWE Wrestling Thread
- Thread starter Steedie
- Start date
Ah right, i see, i didnt know that, i thought he just went nuts
Interesting, even tho for me, they never really took a shot to the head anyway, no thats wrong, they did, but 90% of the guys, 90% of the time managed to get the hand up before the shot.
Yea your right, Attitude era RAW was the best thing on TV i dont think i missed an episode for years back then.
Even though PG sucks, it's not the main problem these days.
WWE treats the fans like idiots. They'll abandon plots halfway through on a regular basis and expect us to not notice. They also try to lie about facts. HHH has fought 'Taker before at WM but they tried so hard to bill it as the first time ever last year.
Then you get the plots themselves, terribly written these days. They have the wrestlers with the skill, they have the superstars with the charisma on the mic, but they just put defaults like Mason "Batista" Ryan in the ring because he fit's Vince's image.
They treat most, if not all of the titles like garbage these days. Remember when Madusa dropped the WWF Womens title in the trash can on Nitro? That's what WWE have done with all their titles.
1. Tag Team is non-existent anymore.
2. Womens matches last all but 30 seconds, when they do go longer they have no talents like Alicia Fox or Kelly in the ring.
3. They killed cruiser-weight division.
4. They treat the IC and US title's like crappy stepping stones, the prestige they had is gone. (IC has got a bit better with Rhodes)
5. They swap the World titles around like candy.
6. They go too far with a certain heel announcer, Michael Cole, who no longer talks about the wrestling and insists on insulting every wrestler that performs thus damaging the product.
7. Vince thinks the WWE is no longer a wrestling company.
I could go on forever but you get the idea. I've always watch and always will, but it's dying slowing and turning into the Muppet's >.<
WWE treats the fans like idiots. They'll abandon plots halfway through on a regular basis and expect us to not notice. They also try to lie about facts. HHH has fought 'Taker before at WM but they tried so hard to bill it as the first time ever last year.
Then you get the plots themselves, terribly written these days. They have the wrestlers with the skill, they have the superstars with the charisma on the mic, but they just put defaults like Mason "Batista" Ryan in the ring because he fit's Vince's image.
They treat most, if not all of the titles like garbage these days. Remember when Madusa dropped the WWF Womens title in the trash can on Nitro? That's what WWE have done with all their titles.
1. Tag Team is non-existent anymore.
2. Womens matches last all but 30 seconds, when they do go longer they have no talents like Alicia Fox or Kelly in the ring.
3. They killed cruiser-weight division.
4. They treat the IC and US title's like crappy stepping stones, the prestige they had is gone. (IC has got a bit better with Rhodes)
5. They swap the World titles around like candy.
6. They go too far with a certain heel announcer, Michael Cole, who no longer talks about the wrestling and insists on insulting every wrestler that performs thus damaging the product.
7. Vince thinks the WWE is no longer a wrestling company.
I could go on forever but you get the idea. I've always watch and always will, but it's dying slowing and turning into the Muppet's >.<
You could go on but you'd only be saying more unfounded nonsense, Mason Ryan? What has he done in his career that's worth noting? The current champs are CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, before Daniel Bryan you had Mark Henry none of these fit the stereotypical body builder image you're eluding to.
You say the tag team division is non existent, it's been like that for the past 10 years likewise the cruiser weight division which has never ever been one of the wwe biggest priorities.
I couldn't disagree more in you evaluation of the US and IC titles as well, both titles have always been nothing more than a springboard for bigger and better things in fact you'd have to go back to the late eighties early nineties to find the likes of Mr Perfect, The Million Dollar Man & The Honkey Tonk Man before you find a wrestler who stuck in that division. Bret Hart, HBK, Stone Cold, The Rock, Triple H they all started at that level and if anything the quality in that division at the moment with the likes of Ziggler, Rhodes & Ryder has probably some of the most solid workers the wwe has at the moment.
Women's division has been a joke for years so no change there but it hasn't helped by the fact that one of the best women's wrestlers has been out knocking out her first chavey but regardless of that who really gives a **** about the woman's division?
As for the titles swapping about Punk has been champion since November, Bryan since December so I'd say they're pretty long runs and I'd rather them have the titles for 3 or 4 months than a year of Super Cena holding the belt.
Probably the only point you have is Vince not treating it like a wrestling promotion as much and more of a global brand but I'm still enjoying the wrestling part as much as I ever have in recent years so I've got no complaints there either.
You say you always watch and you always will but it seems to me you haven't been watching at all recently
(sorry if any of that came across as rude)
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The tag division used to be good, and very fun to watch. These days WWE seem to always fail when trying to put teams together. It's also true cruiser-weight have never been highly valued by Vince, but they put on a hell of a match (Kidman, Tajiri, London, Kendrick to name a few) and now all we've really had left is Mysterio who is always injured every 6 months and Sin Cara who is great in the ring but couldn't show his Lucha Libre style off properly because most of the "big" wrestlers can't wrestle his style.
I also agree that mid card titles have been used as a springboard, but what I mean is they used to matter somewhat on TV. The then mid-card talent who weren't ready for the main event used to revolve around those belts, and always had great feuds and matches. Rhodes is bringing it back somewhat, but the writers pitching him against Show at WM is a complete joke to the title and Rhode's wrestling ability.
Womens matches can be entertaining as well (Trish, Lita, Molly, Jazz etc.) but they do nothing but put bad model talent in the ring. Beth, Hart & Layla are few remaining that can actually perform. Of course they have Kong coming back soon, but some of TNA's knockouts are talent WWE needs (I don't like TNA btw).
Yes, the WWE finally listened to the IWC by giving the title to capable wrestlers like Punk and Bryan Danielson (even though Danielson is still a but rusty/stiff on the mic) and I applaud them for it. When I was referring to it swapping hands all the time, I was talking about Cena and Borton (which hasn't happened to often lately but it had been and will again). As for Mason Ryan, he's a waste of space, can't wrestle, terrible charisma and looks like a deer in the headlights. He's only still there because Vince likes him.
(don't worry, no offence taken, I like a good debate
)
I also agree that mid card titles have been used as a springboard, but what I mean is they used to matter somewhat on TV. The then mid-card talent who weren't ready for the main event used to revolve around those belts, and always had great feuds and matches. Rhodes is bringing it back somewhat, but the writers pitching him against Show at WM is a complete joke to the title and Rhode's wrestling ability.
Womens matches can be entertaining as well (Trish, Lita, Molly, Jazz etc.) but they do nothing but put bad model talent in the ring. Beth, Hart & Layla are few remaining that can actually perform. Of course they have Kong coming back soon, but some of TNA's knockouts are talent WWE needs (I don't like TNA btw).
Yes, the WWE finally listened to the IWC by giving the title to capable wrestlers like Punk and Bryan Danielson (even though Danielson is still a but rusty/stiff on the mic) and I applaud them for it. When I was referring to it swapping hands all the time, I was talking about Cena and Borton (which hasn't happened to often lately but it had been and will again). As for Mason Ryan, he's a waste of space, can't wrestle, terrible charisma and looks like a deer in the headlights. He's only still there because Vince likes him.
(don't worry, no offence taken, I like a good debate
)
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She's trying to get a match with Vince, yep, Vince. Throwing insults at him over Twitter because he's ignoring her. The main reason for that is the 2 new hardcore porn movies she filmed with Vivid, and that don't spin too well with PG
I also preferred the Attitude era belt, even the Undisputed one was nice. Then they decied to try and male a gangster bling bling title to go with Cena's huge crappy push. It stuck and never changed. They have been recent talks about a re-design and I'm on my knees begging for that to happen, current one looks like a cheap toy.
Handily, Steve Foster above covered pretty much all the points I was going to make. So many times the WWE starts a storyline which has the potential to be amazing... then screws it up. Just look at CM Punk. That was the hottest thing the industry has seen in a decade... and what happens? He's suddenly friends with hunter, and now look where he is. Sure he's higher than he used to be, but listen to the reaction he got when he returned:
And don't forgot the crowd for MitB, though that's perhaps an anomaly.
But what storylines do they currently have going on, and where did they end up?
Bena Vs Kane Embrace the hate. Super Cena wins an ambulance match, Eve turns heel, nobody cares.
Natalya farts.
Bryan is a fantastic heel, he's the reason I youtube parts of Raw now.
Brodus Clay... vanished.
Ziggler Vs Punk... overshadowed by Jericho.
I can't really think of any other recent feuds, certainly not any long builds for them, besides Rock Vs Cena, but I'm not even sure that can be counted, since sure they agreed on the date for it a year in advance, but there've only interacted... less than 10 times in the past 10 months?
Compare that with a plot from Chikara from example (Taken from wikipedia)
A story which built up for 2 1/2 years and culminated with what was essentially an invasion, a new stable formed, laid out everyone, one of the biggest faces in the company turned heel, and set up another whole year of storylines. Sure, you may have to suspend your disbelief, but so what? Its no worse than Kane tearing through the ring and trying to drag Ryder to hell!
I'm really not sure what it is you're wanting/expecting?
The circumstances around a small promotion like Chikara and the wwe are light years apart so picking on your CM Punk point he's even said himself he'd of liked to stay off TV for longer than he did to build that angle up but unfortunately his rise culminated at the exact same time as the wwe's second biggest ppv of the year and from a business perspective they had to bring him back when they did.
If I would label any criticism at the wwe it would actually be the long build up in The Rock/Cena angle. Cena was never going to be involved in the Rumble match this year, he was never going to be involved in the EC matches last month either and at TLC in December he was left off the card completely, by setting the date between Rock & Cena when they did they've had no option but to put pointless crappy programs in recent months.
Brodus Clay has been kept off TV because his in ring work isn't deemed good enough, Natayla's gimmick is to appeal to the younger audience which is something else smaller promotions dont need to deal with and I'm not sure what you were expecting from Punk/Ziggler? They had a great match but like almost every Royal Rumble title match in recent years they're never more than just a 1 ppv angle (again because of the build up to Mania)
If you dont like the fact that the wwe is a worldwide franchise that has to appeal to all demographics to continue to make the money it does then dont watch, simple as that. Dont bitch about it though and how it doesn't compare to the smaller Indy promotions because those Indy promotions could quite easily be another ECW in 20 years time whilst the wwe is still in business.
He's only been shown in 1 minute squash matches on TV, yet they give Kahli and Jinder Mahal continual presence?
Ziggler was getting a push to the main event level that he truly deserves. I wasn't expecting him to win the title at the Rumble, bit now he's been put on the backburner, playing second fiddle to Jericho. And on the subject of Punk, funny how last year he was talking about how he hated terms like the 'WWE Universe' which he's now trotting out in his promos, its all been forgotten.
And look at what Bryan has had to put up with for the past year. Cole on commentary telling the audience that he's a nerd, he's rubbish in the ring and nobody should pay any attention to him. And there's no face strong enough to go against him. King and Booker just get drowned out, and when your commentary team are telling you that the guy in the ring is rubbish, is there no surprise that Bryan's segments on TV do badly?
I know that Cole's a heel, and so people should be cheering for the people he dislikes, but now Bryan's a heel and Cole is still hating on him! What are the audience supposed to think?
They could still appeal to all demographics if they booked wrestlers and matches properly. If they had actually threatening heels, and didn't abort their storylines and pushes early, because of one bad TV rating. They place far too much stock in how many people watch each segment, if someone isn't getting a good enough rating, that's them gone. That's not how you build someone up. Of course a 'no name' wrestler isn't going to draw, because nobody has seen him! The WWE needs to learn that you need to push a guy so that he does draw good ratings.
Case in point, a couple of months ago, the Ep where Raw started off with Punk, Bryan and Ryder after a PPV. I can't remember which one it was, but the opening segment didn't do very good numbers, and the WWE lost all faith in them to draw crowds, so next week it was back to Hunter and Cena starting and closing the show.
And currently, I don't watch the show. I listen to the Review a Raw podcast which keeps me informed, and I'll probably catch Wrestlemania, but the WWE aren't currently putting out a show I have any interest in, certainly not enough to justify spending 4 hours, or even 2 hours just for Raw, to watch each week.
Cole hasn't been hating on Bryan at all recently, as per the norm now Bryan's a heel Cole's giving him respect especially as Bryan has been aligning himself with Big Jonny
I feel the same way. I used to watch every minute of the action up until about a year ago. Cole made it even worse. Like I said before, most in the IWC think's he's actually damaging the product and ratings, I'd have to agree. I always record Raw & SD now, and find myself fast forwarding some of the more terrible matches or when Cole just gets on my nerves. Find myself mostly watching the promos, besides the PPV's of course.
What I just said in reply to iviv; Cole has become the boil on the ass of WWE and is no longer doing them any favours, throwing out insults every time he opens his mouth. What makes it worse is the fact that Cole is the Lead announcer which means he's supposed to call the action like JR used to while Lawler and/or Booker provide the colour commentary. It seems Cole wants to do both and they just can't be bothered any more.
I must say I'm glad for more of The Rock and his skits (e.g. history lessons on the last edition of Raw) lately in the build up to Wrestlemania. Reminds us of what great mic talkers we are missing these days. I know one person can't the standard for the whole company but as long as they're keeping that turd Cena as the WWE flag bearer then it will never rise above (no pun intended) the level it is now. At least give us more thugonomics. I really hate Cena's responses to the Rock's put downs or 'Cena sucks x a million', he may as well just say 'sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me'. My god he sucks so bad. They need to turn him major heel and see what happens. Less talking please.
Since becoming champ, CM Punk has been a total disappointment. What was all that stuff he was going on about with HHH before he became champ, about how he wanted to change things?
It still feels exactly the same.
Laurinitis vs Long as a power struggle is getting more interesting and a bit less marshmallowy now which is good but still not all that convincing. I don't think anyone ever took Laurinitis seriously to begin with, but with Otunga as his 'legal advisor', even less so.
Still not sure where this Kane/embrace hate angle is still heading, if anywhere. Maybe I've missed something.
Need more Orton.
Please please get rid of Vicky Guerrero already, she literally adds nothing.
Interesting that HBK is going to be special ref for HHH/Taker at WM. Made me wonder about a possible scenario where Taker has HHH in Hells Gate, HHH taps, but Michaels won't ring the bell, because he can't see HHH lose.
Since becoming champ, CM Punk has been a total disappointment. What was all that stuff he was going on about with HHH before he became champ, about how he wanted to change things?
It still feels exactly the same.
Laurinitis vs Long as a power struggle is getting more interesting and a bit less marshmallowy now which is good but still not all that convincing. I don't think anyone ever took Laurinitis seriously to begin with, but with Otunga as his 'legal advisor', even less so.
Still not sure where this Kane/embrace hate angle is still heading, if anywhere. Maybe I've missed something.
Need more Orton.
Please please get rid of Vicky Guerrero already, she literally adds nothing.
Interesting that HBK is going to be special ref for HHH/Taker at WM. Made me wonder about a possible scenario where Taker has HHH in Hells Gate, HHH taps, but Michaels won't ring the bell, because he can't see HHH lose.
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Yup, exactly.
Laurinitis has actually grown on my quite a lot, he's a kinda goofy heel now and I really like the way he pulls it off.
Is that still going? For the last two months the Kane/Cena feud has just been to give Cena something to do until his big feud with the Rock, which is in full swing now. Is Kane trying to make other people embrace the hate now? If so... ugh.
Vicky is perhaps the most over heel in the WWE. They need more of her! All she has to say is 'Excuse me' and instant boos! Nobody else could get that sort of complete reaction. And managers are something which the WWE needs. Put her with guys who aren't so good on the mic and she can really elevate them.
I'm really not keen on the stip, purely because a special ref means some sort of goofy finish like that. If Hunter wins then Taker's streak is broken due to some questionable reffing, and if HBK screws Hunter, then... well, I'm not sure. I'm going to reserve judgement on this move until I actually see the match, as it could work well, though I'm not holding my breath.
I think HBK will screw HHH causing HBK to come out of retirement to face him at WM29. It seems that HHH wants to end the on screen kliq. He did it with Nash and he'll do it with HBK. I really do think his ego is THAT big.