The Dubai thread!
- Thread starter magick
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Soldato
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Oh gosh no, we shouldn't endorse it. We will just do it on the sly and not tell anybody we are doing it. I mean seriously, so long as the consumer gets what the consumer wants who cares what ethical roots the product took to get to our shelves. After all, fair trade and the such like are opt in aren't they? lol
Complaining about the ethical treatment of one group in a foreign country whilst turning a blind eye to atrocities next to your door step is a typical right wing fascist daily fail reader affair.
*and no, Youngs Literal is my preferred biblical translation of choice. Grammatically broken though it may be, I find a literal translation more fulfilling to the whole
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France has border line slaves?
Wait, I think the nearest atrocity I can think of is legalized weed in the Netherlands ...
Fo' Shame!!!!!
Sharia Law is civilized? LOL, who are you trying to convince?
Soldato
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France and the netherlands... because un-ethical practices could never be found closer to home.
*sigh* i despair for this world sometimes.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7824291.stm
*sigh* i despair for this world sometimes.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7824291.stm
12 hours a day at £3.50 an hour is still a lot better off than most of the world.
What was your point?
It got discovered, and they will simply be expected to raise their pay to the minimum wage.
Also there are a LOT of illegal immigrants in the UK, no where else would legally be allowed to offer them any kind of employment. They were working there by choice because they had no other option, and they didnt want to be deported. They werent being forced to work in such conditions nor stay here if they didnt want to.
By the way, you used the word 'atrocity'. That factory in Manchester doesnt come anywhere near to the definition of an Atrocity, as a lot of stuff in Sharia states does.
What was your point?
It got discovered, and they will simply be expected to raise their pay to the minimum wage.
Also there are a LOT of illegal immigrants in the UK, no where else would legally be allowed to offer them any kind of employment. They were working there by choice because they had no other option, and they didnt want to be deported. They werent being forced to work in such conditions nor stay here if they didnt want to.
By the way, you used the word 'atrocity'. That factory in Manchester doesnt come anywhere near to the definition of an Atrocity, as a lot of stuff in Sharia states does.
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Soldato
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I had hoped somebody would try to argue this point because it proves my point further. Most unethical practices from companies trading in the UK dont happen in the UK, they are outsourced to countries where they can get away with it. The risk of setting up a sweatshop in the UK is too high compared with the ease of getting one running in the developing world. Regardless, those produce are still bound for the UK market place, and you tender them your national support by not giving a damn. You are happy to buy your cheap, sweat shop produced clothing from primark, m&s etc but when it comes unethical practices not swept under the rug in a foreign country, thats totally wrong and unacceptable.
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To the OP: Sorry. On principle it was a good thread idea, but maybe not in GD or maybe on a different forum. Given your residential status there, the common courtesy negative response might be:
'Glad you like it over there, but its not for me'
But instead we get GD backwash like
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Except that the workers Dubai used to build their stuff were forced unpaid labor who were completely lied to about their wages and work conditions, and had their passports removed so that they couldnt get out of, or away from their contracts.
Nothing in British employment even compares to how unethical that is.
How do you know what I buy? In most cases the general public have absolutely no clue about how their stuff is made, how exactly can you put any of the blame on them?
Nothing in British employment even compares to how unethical that is.
How do you know what I buy? In most cases the general public have absolutely no clue about how their stuff is made, how exactly can you put any of the blame on them?
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Soldato
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Ignorance is bliss? I hear that works well in court. And actually, you can have a clue by buying 'fair trade' or other schemes that provide some guarantee a produce was made fairly.
Which is exactly why we outsource it. Out of sight, out of mind, and if its in a different country, its their problem not ours. We get the fine wine, they get the slave labour. Its just good business
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Plenty of people lured into the UK too on promise of a decent job which turns out to be a "massage" shop, no? And also with transport fees to pay and no passport.
Yes sponsors can hold passports in certain cases but I have no idea about people being arrested for quitting. Seems unlikely as its not criminal matter. Will try to find out.
Consulates usually help to repatriate those who have fallen out of the system.
This is done by gangs in the UK and not major companies like in Dubai.
Fair Trade products arent very widely available, and it is pretty difficult finding a local shop that stocks them.
And what does your court comment have anything to do with this matter? Purchasing products is not a crime, as I said, most people simply couldnt care at all about how the stuff they buy is made.
I'm pretty sure that you have purchased plenty of stuff yourself that was made from other peoples suffrage, I doubt that there is a single person that hasnt.
Who promises that finding a decent job in the UK is easy? Its pretty damn hard even for nationals here to get a decent job, even with university qualifications.
What chance do you think that an illegal immigrant that likely cant communicate fluently in English, nor has enough education has to get a decent job in the UK?
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Ever worked abroad? I left the UK in 95 and have not liked everywhere I have had to live. Its a job, you know?
If a place sucked I would freely say so of course. But in my view this is a good option for many reasons. But not everyones cup of tea for sure.
Btw I work for BT not the UAE tourist board.
So the media likes to suggest yes. But neither of us know the true situation I would imagine and I would guess some recruiting agencies are less scrupulous than others.
I will ask a few guys when I an back next week as I only ever saw such claims in UK media.
So hang on you're saying the illegal operation of those factories is comparable to the legal and government endorsed activities of the construction companies in Dubai?
So the government run ethnic cleansing/massacres in Africa are something we can't complain about cause the occasional skinhead nutter murders a black guy in this country?
yeah but that's illegal unlike in Dubai where the government don't care and in fact jail them if they stop working where as here we support them and either do asylum or deportation.
It's because they have a debt to them, in Dubai if you quit your employer is required to tell the bank, if you have debts your savings don't cover your accounts are frozen and you cna be jailed.
They can't earn enough to ever pay off their "fee" so they have to continue working or any savings the ydo have are frozen and they are then screwed.
not much they can do against the law of the country though.
there are a few Brits/Canadians that get stuck there too with debts unable to get a job and unable to leave.
I wouldn't call it love, they start off being quite interesting and then get sidetracked into insignificance.
Was going to post about this for all the people complaining about slave labour.
No but most of the products you buy especialy anything with rare minerals like motherboards, cpus, has been built on the back of slave labour. But people prefer not to be aware of that little fact.
Tefal as far as I'm aware it was one guy who was running a homeopathy business that wasn't doing too well. He had £10000 in debt that he told the bank he couldn't pay (being banks they didn't care and interpreted it as wouldn't pay). He then went on holiday without telling the bank, even though both the bank and consulate would have told him that this is not on - many expats have been going on 'holiday' with massive debts and never returning. The thing is, he did return and he thought that nothing would happen. Of course he got treated like a runner. They took away his passport and put in in a catch 22 situation which is terrible, and I'm not sure what's happening with him now.
It would never had happened though had he followed the rules. This is the point people are trying to make, yes if you get on the wrong side of the law you are in deep, deep ****, so don't get on the wrong side of the law and you will be fine.