The Dubai thread!

[magick]

Sharia law, wouldn't go near the place unless I was tired of living.

It makes me laugh all these people complaining about the strictness of sharia law and yet in the same breath they'll be the first to complain about crime and social degeneration in the UK and how criminals get off so easy over here. The percieved brutality by western standards of sharia law is directly linked to there being zero crime in the UAE.

The more you have a society that is tolerant and respects individual human rights the more criminals can get away with and the more you'll see society degenerate as they exploit this fact. If you want a society with no crime like Dubai you have to have a police force that is brutal and can issue street level justice.

Say burglar gets caught breaking into someones house in UAE or Saudi Arabia, if he's lucky he'll have the **** beaten out of him to such an extent he'll probably never dare burgle again, worse he could still get a good kicking but also end up with one of his hands chopped off, crushed in a vice, ect.

In the UK the burgler is likely to be in courtt many times before he even sees a prison sentence by which time he's potentialy burgled several hundred houses. And if a house owner defends themself he can end up prison or paying the burgler compensation. Same if the police are a bit to forceful with him in the cells.

Ultimately both systems have the pros and cons.

 

[Hamish]

It makes me laugh all these people complaining about the strictness of sharia law and yet in the same breath they'll be the first to complain about crime and social degeneration in the UK and how criminals get off so easy over here. The percieved brutality by western standards of sharia law is directly linked to there being zero crime in the UAE.

The more you have a society that is tolerant and respects human rights the more criminals can get away with and the more you'll see society degenerate as they exploit this fact. If you want a society with no crime like Dubai you have to have a police force that is brutal and can issue street level justice.

Say burglar gets caught breaking into someones house in UAE or Saudi Arabia, if he's lucky he'll have the **** beaten out of him to such an extent he'll probably never dare burgle again, worse he could still get a good kicking but also end up with one of his hands chopped off, crushed in a vice, ect.

In the UK the burgler is likely to be in courtt many times before he even sees a prison sentence by which time he's potentialy burgled several hundred houses. And if a house owner defends themself he can end up prison or paying the burgler compensation. Same if the police are a bit to forceful with him in the cells.

Ultimately both systems have the pros and cons.

I think peoples perception vs reality of punishment in the middle east is a bit off! Hands chopped off?! lol we don't live in the stone ages (or Saudi).
My guess for burglary would be a couple of years, then deportation, as in this case

 

[magick]

I think peoples perception vs reality of punishment in the middle east is a bit off! Hands chopped off?! lol we don't live in the stone ages (or Saudi).
My guess for burglary would be a couple of years, then deportation, as in this case

I'm basing this on one of my friends who is Saudi and he explained how justice works there. He said if you get caught stealing a bottle of water because you'r to poor to pay for it you'll get off reasonably leniantly. But if you steal someones plasma or mug someone at knifepoint you'r almost certain to lose your hand.

Also I bet the burgler in your linked got totaly battered by the police when he was caught.

 

[Hamish]

I'm basing this on one of my friends who is Saudi and he explained how justice works there. He said if you get caught stealing a bottle of water because you'r to poor to pay for it you'll get off reasonably leniantly. But if you steal someones plasma or mug someone at knifepoint you'r almost certain to lose your hand.

Also I bet the burgler in your linked got totaly battered by the police when he was caught.

Well thats Saudi, by far the most backward and horrible places in the middle east, if not the world. Not the same as UAE/Dubai, it's a bit like talking about Germany in a thread about the UK...

 

[Hamish]

Also I bet the burgler in your linked got totaly battered by the police when he was caught and 3 years in a ME prison is not like 3 years in UK prison.

WTF? What is the based on? Now you're just making things up.

And no a ME prison is not like a UK prison, but it's by no means inhumane or squalor. Article about UAE prisons if you're interested: http://tainted-in-uae.blogspot.com/2006/06/uae-prisons.html

 

[magick]

WTF? What is the based on? Now you're just making things up.

And no a ME prison is not like a UK prison, but it's by no means inhumane or squalor.

I don't know for a fact but I imagine the police in UAE aren't afraid to lay a few punches on a burgler when they catch/interogate him? And that's not necesarily a bad thing either.

 

[BiGT-]

1000s of historic sites, museums, galleries etc. - Dubai has a handful of poor offers

The museums hold most things that were stolen from other countries, but maybe I didnt really explain what I meant by holiday, something to relax and enjoy, I enjoy museums and site seeing/historic sites, but lets talk about having fun with activities such as Jet-Skiing etc.

100s of excellent visitor attractions - dubai has some very average arcade based entertainment centres, the ski slope, two good waterparks and a poor amusement park

Please point me in the direction to some of the 100's of visitor attractions in london? I have been here my whole life and can only think of london dungeon, westfield which is recent, the london bridge, big ben and all the parliament buldings, buckingham palace, basically the royal stuff etc. and some small shopping centres.

good opportunities to eat, drink and shop in both, but London has hotels, restaurants, bas and shopping which have evolved over 100s of years and are much more interesting. Dubai is full of replication.

I understand dubai have so many malls that look similar, but london cannot compete, the latest shopping mall/centre in london is Westfield and that is a disappointment itself, on the other hand dubai's malls have everything, a small theme park at the top, wide range of different shops and huge food court with restaurants I wish we had here (NewYorkFries).

Now I probably missed out a lot about the two, but I find London boring, if I ever wanna go out with my mates, its always walking around Central London, going to the cinema, eating, then back home, its always the same, maybe thats why I prefer Dubai as I dont think london has many things to do

 

[dave_beast]

It makes me laugh all these people complaining about the strictness of sharia law and yet in the same breath they'll be the first to complain about crime and social degeneration in the UK and how criminals get off so easy over here. The percieved brutality by western standards of sharia law is directly linked to there being zero crime in the UAE.

The more you have a society that is tolerant and respects individual human rights the more criminals can get away with and the more you'll see society degenerate as they exploit this fact. If you want a society with no crime like Dubai you have to have a police force that is brutal and can issue street level justice.

Say burglar gets caught breaking into someones house in UAE or Saudi Arabia, if he's lucky he'll have the **** beaten out of him to such an extent he'll probably never dare burgle again, worse he could still get a good kicking but also end up with one of his hands chopped off, crushed in a vice, ect.

In the UK the burgler is likely to be in courtt many times before he even sees a prison sentence by which time he's potentialy burgled several hundred houses. And if a house owner defends themself he can end up prison or paying the burgler compensation. Same if the police are a bit to forceful with him in the cells.

Ultimately both systems have the pros and cons.

Well obviously the threat of violence is the way to run a society isn't it?

[/sarcasm]

Each to their own, but i'd rather live under a more civilised, modern, calmer, forward thinking law than Sharia.

I understand that Sharia was the flagstone for many different laws including our own justice system, but where we, in the western world modernised those laws, Sharia stayed the same.

I really, for the life of me cannot understand why anyone would want to live as a dhimmi under a law that is effectively, and eye for an eye?

 

[bhavv]

Well thats Saudi, by far the most backward and horrible places in the middle east, if not the world. Not the same as UAE/Dubai, it's a bit like talking about Germany in a thread about the UK...

But you still get thrown in Jail in UAE for kissing, being drunk or gay, hardly not what I would consider a modern country.

I don't know for a fact but I imagine the police in UAE aren't afraid to lay a few punches on a burgler when they catch/interogate him? And that's not necesarily a bad thing either.

They also arent afraid to batter someone to death for simply swearing, I consider that to be a very bad thing.

 

[bhavv]

You're not going to get arrested for holding hands with your girlfriend, you're not going to get executed unless you did something really stupid.

You mean something really stupid like kissing your girlfriend?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8602449.stm

A British man and woman jailed in Dubai for kissing in public have lost their appeal against their conviction.

Ayman Najafi, 24, and Charlotte Adams, 25, were sentenced to a month in prison with subsequent deportation and fined about £200 for drinking alcohol.

The pair were arrested in November after a local woman accused them of breaking the country's decency laws by kissing on the mouth in a restaurant.

Wow, kissing your girlfriend in a restaurant and drinking Alcohol, how incredibly stupid and illegal of them to do!

 

[BiGT-]

Its their country, you have to follow their rules. Simples

 

[DampCat]

Wow, kissing your girlfriend in a restaurant and drinking Alcohol, how incredibly stupid and illegal of them to do!

I dont really understand your sarcasm here, because it IS illegal to do both the things they did, and they were punished for breaking the law :/

Fact is, had they just been drinking alcohol without a booze licence, nobody would have cared, and the police would have said "stop that" and left it there. Had they just kissed on the cheek, an onlooker would have merely tutted and got on with their meal.

The truth to the story is that in a romantic environment they kissed on the lips for some time, and then kicked off when somebody took offence and asked them to stop.

My family have been living here for 10 years, and not once has any of us been arrested. We all live perfectly normal lifestyles with booze and single people out on the pull and public displays of affection and dressing like a trollop and smoking weed and all those things that seem so important to us British. What i know is that there is ALWAYS more to these stories of ridiculous policing and most of it involves swearing or mouthing off when they reprimand you for overstepping the line.

The regular, everyday person will get along just fine here if they go about their business without dragging everybody else into it and causing offence to the locals. How is that any different to what the entire population of Britain wants in their own country?

You're free to come here and get on with your Western culture as much as you like, but don't take the ****. And when you DO overstep the mark, say sorry and go do something else. Dont kick off about it and start swearing at people, cause then you're just asking for it.

 

[dave_beast]

What about if I wanted to build a church and promote Christianity?

 

[DampCat]

There are churches here. There are big Christian-Islam congregations at Christmas, where everybody gets together and chills out.

During Ramadan, you are welcome to turn up at any mosque and take part in the Iftar feasts. The locals are very welcoming in this. Truthfully it doesnt need to be during Ramadan either, but that's typically when you'll see most Christian-Islam crossover.

Year round you can have all the baptisms, christenings, christian weddings and confirmations you like in the name of Jeezy Creezy. Just a few weeks ago some family were married on the beach, in public, by a Pastor. They kissed and everything (the couple, not the pastor).

 

[drunkenmaster]

Well obviously the threat of violence is the way to run a society isn't it?

[/sarcasm]

Each to their own, but i'd rather live under a more civilised, modern, calmer, forward thinking law than Sharia.

I understand that Sharia was the flagstone for many different laws including our own justice system, but where we, in the western world modernised those laws, Sharia stayed the same.

I really, for the life of me cannot understand why anyone would want to live as a dhimmi under a law that is effectively, and eye for an eye?

The UK is currently heavily involved in Afghanistan, decided to help overthrow Gadafi, were in Iraq, twice........ The threat of violence towards innocent civilians in those countries is VERY real, and they've done nothing. Innoncent civilians don't get rounded up and put in jail or killed in Dubai.

I really honestly truly laugh at the backwards thinking that, putting people in jail or even killing them for commiting crimes, that by living there you agree to live by the rules, is horrific but its fine for a civilised country like the UK to kill magnitudes more people waging wars on countries for our own personal gain?

So its wrong to kill a man who raped someone, or murdered someone, but its fine to kill 100k+ people in a decade long conflict with many of them completely innocent? Apply a little logic as to which is worse. Feeling like you and your family are safe because very very very few people think they will get away with murder/rape/awful violent crimes in Dubai, or in the UK feeling like violent crime is getting worse by the day as people get away with horrific crimes in the uk with tiny setences then come back out and reoffend.

What about if I wanted to build a church and promote Christianity?

AS has been said, they've widely accepted religion, but it was fairly obvious you wanted the answer to fit into your "they're so backwards they'd put you in jail if you asked to build a church there". Considering they are exactly the opposite of that, while the UK bemoans every new mosque built here.

I'm basing this on one of my friends who is Saudi and he explained how justice works there. He said if you get caught stealing a bottle of water because you'r to poor to pay for it you'll get off reasonably leniantly. But if you steal someones plasma or mug someone at knifepoint you'r almost certain to lose your hand.

Also I bet the burgler in your linked got totaly battered by the police when he was caught.

Whats wrong with what you just posted though? Steal something out of desparation no punishment, steal something out of pure greed, get severely punished......... and? Don't steal, pretty clear statement there and ........... it works. The people who get incredibly harshly dealt with, are mostly violent offenders, its pretty simple though, don't kill someone, don't rape, don't rob, don't mug people and you won't get punished.


Here a judge lets off everyone, make up their own laws and let off guys with vast quantities of kiddie porn, who IIRC was involved in making some, and sent it to other people. YAY for our non backwards, soft, crime generating laws which make life less secure for John Doe walking down the street, afraid to be mugged or stabbed.


Dubai's not even close to perfect, but the reasons people come up with, and the ludicrous illogical thoughts of what makes something "backwards" or violent, or "right or wrong", or pure misinformation/bigoted views is pretty unbelievable.

 

[Skidder]

The museums hold most things that were stolen from other countries, but maybe I didnt really explain what I meant by holiday, something to relax and enjoy, I enjoy museums and site seeing/historic sites, but lets talk about having fun with activities such as Jet-Skiing etc.



Please point me in the direction to some of the 100's of visitor attractions in london? I have been here my whole life and can only think of london dungeon, westfield which is recent, the london bridge, big ben and all the parliament buldings, buckingham palace, basically the royal stuff etc. and some small shopping centres.



I understand dubai have so many malls that look similar, but london cannot compete, the latest shopping mall/centre in london is Westfield and that is a disappointment itself, on the other hand dubai's malls have everything, a small theme park at the top, wide range of different shops and huge food court with restaurants I wish we had here (NewYorkFries).

Now I probably missed out a lot about the two, but I find London boring, if I ever wanna go out with my mates, its always walking around Central London, going to the cinema, eating, then back home, its always the same, maybe thats why I prefer Dubai as I dont think london has many things to do

I can't be bothered pointing you in the direction of 100s of attractions. They are there. Everything from the London Eye, the theme parks west of London etc. I am a leisure, tourism and entertainment economist and have worked a lot on attractions in London and Dubai. The malls in Dubai don't just look similar they have almost identical tenant lists. Some are a little more high end but ultimately high street. London has so much more than malls from Bond Street to Portobello, to Covent Garden, to department stores, to burrough market etc. etc. Incomparable in scope.

Yes London is not a summer resort destination, so although there is jet skiing, it is not the best. But that would be a stupid comparison

You can like Dubai all you want, I understand why people like it. I jus think it's naff and there are places I would rather be in the middle east or elsewhere. But to say London doesn't have anything to do is just daft.

What about the 100s of theatres, venues, comedy clubs.

Your cinema and walking around trips with your mates probably haven't shown you the best of London. I guess you are quite young and probably have a lot of London left to enjoy. Lucky!

 

[bhavv]

I dont really understand your sarcasm here, because it IS illegal to do both the things they did, and they were punished for breaking the law :/

The point is that by modern liberal belief, there is nothing wrong with what they did, and the laws in your backward barbaric country are pathetic.

Its their country, you have to follow their rules. Simples

So, how many couples do you know that when they go on holiday together, they know that kissing is so illegal where they are going that they will end up in jail?

I can guarantee you that if such people knew that beforehand, they wouldnt have ever gone on holiday to such a coutry in the first place.

 

[shroomz]

So, how many couples do you know that when they go on holiday together, they know that kissing is so illegal where they are going that they will end up in jail?

I can guarantee you that if such people knew that beforehand, they wouldnt have ever gone on holiday to such a coutry in the first place.

Have you ever been to the UAE? I have, and I can tell you that what you that what you just wrote is absolute tripe. As has been said multiple times, you don't go to jail for kissing or holding hands or whatever. IF you are making out on the street, then you get arrested, and probably deported.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Have you ever been to the UAE? I have, and I can tell you that what you that what you just wrote is absolute tripe. As has been said multiple times, you don't go to jail for kissing or holding hands or whatever. IF you are making out on the street, then you get arrested, and probably deported.

I think that is where people from the west have a problem.

Basic freedom that one take for granted in basically every other western or eastern civilisation, developed or 3rd world countries. Such as public show of affection is pro-hibited. We are not talking about groping in a sexual nature, this is just kissing, like at the ending for When Harry Met Sally or You've Got Mail. Where the main characters embrace and make out.

In Dubai or UAE you get arrested for it.

The best way i can put it is that the whole place seems superficial.

 

[shroomz]

It is certainly different, but I can assure you 100% that the embrace and make out as you put it will not get you in jail. It will get you a lot of looks, and someone might tell you to stop and not do it in public because as you said, public shows of affection are discouraged; however, this is not Saudi Arabia with the Muttawa (religious police) everywhere and UAE police will just move you on, same kind of level as littering gets you told off here and maybe a fine if they are in a bad mood.