The Emirates FA Cup 4th Round ** Spoilers ** [27th - 30th January 2023]

fez said:
They have let key positions drop massively in quality.

Mane - big loss
Wjinaldum - big loss
Fabinho - not the player he was
VVD - shadow of the player he was
Milner and Henderson - Older and not anywhere near the level they were
Salah - not the player he was - probably just temporary
Firmino - gone from fantastic to god knows what

Then there are the injury issues. I would 100% say there is a lot of limping and its not fatigue. Its the slow decline in a number of areas and suddenly Liverpool have found themselves with a 20% dropoff in quality which completely kills their style of football.

They don't defend that well and yet that is what they are increasingly having to do. They are like a formula one engine built out of spec. It needs high tolerances to function but take those away and it will just shake itself to pieces trying to still work the same way.
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What’s worse, not the player they were or being a shadow of the player they were
 
fez said:
They have let key positions drop massively in quality.

Mane - big loss
Wjinaldum - big loss
Fabinho - not the player he was
VVD - shadow of the player he was
Milner and Henderson - Older and not anywhere near the level they were
Salah - not the player he was - probably just temporary
Firmino - gone from fantastic to god knows what

Then there are the injury issues. I would 100% say there is a lot of limping and its not fatigue. Its the slow decline in a number of areas and suddenly Liverpool have found themselves with a 20% dropoff in quality which completely kills their style of football.

They don't defend that well and yet that is what they are increasingly having to do. They are like a formula one engine built out of spec. It needs high tolerances to function but take those away and it will just shake itself to pieces trying to still work the same way.
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Mane i'd agree with. Massive massive loss, but others are still the same players. Look at Rashford.

I totally agree with the F1 analogy though, that type of football does require extreme concentration, but that's why i think they are all just exhausted from 5 years of doing that week in week out. Not saying they dont need to sign replacements, but one or two players can change the whole dynamic again. If they were to get Rice or Caicedo in the summer for example.

Rice/Fab
Salah Elliot Diaz


Is that a bad midfield?
 
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Trusty said:
Don't think that should be the question, its whether Klopp wants to stay for another 5 years and do a rebuild, he might not.

UTD got away with winning and rebuilding for many years because they dwarfed every other club, it's far more difficult now.
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UTD didn't dwarf many clubs. They had to contend with Blackburn Rovers spending big, Newcastle spending big, Arsenal and the Wenger era, Jose and Chelsea, Man City's oil slick, Liverpool with Benitez and SAF overcome it all. This whole narative that the league wasn't competitive back then is a load of junk. He constantly rebuilt teams whilst they were at the top, not wait till his midfield were buggered.

Liverpool spent absolutely wisely in their top seasons. Their signings of the past 4-5 windows have left a lot to be desired. The midfield has had zero investment for what 5 years?

Since the 18/19 window Liverpool have brought in Jota, Thiago, Konate, Diaz, Nunez and Gakpo who have been the "expensive signings".

None of the forward players have been as good or better than Mane and Bobby were in their prime so essentially you have a weaker forward line, Konate is not really any improvement over Matip and Gomez. VVD is a shadow of his former self after getting injured too. Thiago is good but he struggles to keep fit and is now 30+, the rest of the midfield are just getting too old now.

I don't think it will take Klopp that long to rebuild. Focus in the summer on the midfield and look for a replacement for VVD. Their forward line is young, hungry and strong I think it is just because how weak their midfield is that everyone else around is struggling. (Wing backs and forward players). I actually think a season without Europe will do wonders for the teams physical state too. Just look at Arsenal now it has done them the world of good having a good rest last season.
 
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adam cool dude said:
UTD didn't dwarf many clubs. They had to contend with Blackburn Rovers spending big, Newcastle spending big, Arsenal and the Wenger era, Jose and Chelsea, Man City's oil slick, Liverpool with Benitez and SAF overcome it all. This whole narative that the league wasn't competitive back then is a load of junk. He constantly rebuilt teams whilst they were at the top, not wait till his midfield were buggered.

Liverpool spent absolutely wisely in their top seasons. Their signings of the past 4-5 windows have left a lot to be desired. The midfield has had zero investment for what 5 years?

Since the 18/19 window Liverpool have brought in Jota, Thiago, Konate, Diaz, Nunez and Gakpo who have been the "expensive signings".

None of the forward players have been as good or better than Mane and Bobby were in their prime so essentially you have a weaker forward line, Konate is not really any improvement over Matip and Gomez. VVD is a shadow of his former self after getting injured too. Thiago is good but he struggles to keep fit and is now 30+, the rest of the midfield are just getting too old now.

I don't think it will take Klopp that long to rebuild. Focus in the summer on the midfield and look for a replacement for VVD. Their forward line is young, hungry and strong I think it is just because how weak their midfield is that everyone else around is struggling. (Wing backs and forward players). I actually think a season without Europe will do wonders for the teams physical state too. Just look at Arsenal now it has done them the world of good having a good rest last season.
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You did dwarf other clubs, if i recall correctly from looking at revenues during the 90's and 00's. You dwarfed everyone
 
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fez said:
They have let key positions drop massively in quality.

Mane - big loss
Wjinaldum - big loss
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I know we're to expect this sort of lazy revisionism but we lost Wijnaldum 18 months ago and didn't struggle last season and you mention other players being a shadow of their old selves or big drop offs, Mane's drop off started in 2020! For all but 3-4 months of the previous 2 seasons Mane was no where near his level, to the point he was often being left out for Jota. He no longer had the legs to play as a wide forward for us anymore - he'd still put a shift in but he then couldn't get forward and attack anymore. The only time in the past 2 seasons that Mane looked a threat going forwards was when he played as a central striker and that coincided with the side looking worse as a whole. Mane was replaced by Diaz and he's been outstanding for us and outperformed Mane in pretty much ever metric, both offensively and defensively.

Our issues are a mixture of a number of things. There's a number of players that look shot to pieces right now, both physically and mentally. Fabinho's the most obvious one - I've never seen a players legs go quite so much, so quickly as his. His drop-off and the expected drop off from the likes of Henderson coupled with our failure to bring in reinforcements in midfield have left us lacking there and further exposed other areas of the side. The loss of Diaz and Jota for massive chunks of the season so far has really hurt us - not only do they lead our press in attack but also without them we lack any balance to our forward line.
The_One said:
Remember when darwin was going to be the firepower to keep liverpool in touch with haaland and city :o
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Remember when £90m Lukaku was a great bit of business and made Chelsea favourites for the title?
 
Trusty said:
So liverpool aren't going to be in the CL anymore? huh?
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Not next season no and how long after that?

Arsenal
Utd
City
Newcastle are all way above liverpool in terms of development going forward

You think liverpool are going to be so much stronger next year to get top four? The defence and midfield are a mess its not just one or two players needed

Why would rice go liverpool if arsenal and chelsea are after him?

He will go chelsea because of mount and wages or if he wants to be part of a long term plan he will go to arsenal

On this season what is there to take him to liverpool?
 
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The_One said:
Not next season no and how long after that?

Arsenal
Utd
City
Newcastle are all way above liverpool in terms of development going forward

You think liverpool are going to be so much stronger next year to get top four? The defence and midfield are a mess its not just one or two players needed
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I think people are overly dramatic. You all wanted Arteta out 12 months
 
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The_One said:
Not next season no and how long after that?

Arsenal
Utd
City
Newcastle are all way above liverpool in terms of development going forward

You think liverpool are going to be so much stronger next year to get top four? The defence and midfield are a mess its not just one or two players needed
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Liverpool have qualified for the CL in each of the last 6 years, Arsenal and Newcastle haven't once and our revenues dwarf both of yours. I'd say Liverpool are better placed to consistently qualify than either, regardless of how bad this season has gone.
 
BaZ87 said:
Liverpool have qualified for the CL in each of the last 6 years, Arsenal and Newcastle haven't once and our revenues dwarf both of yours. I'd say Liverpool are better placed to consistently qualify than either, regardless of how bad this season has gone.
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Then your going to be in for a shock
 
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