Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)

[Mulder]

Now you are changing the tune from no influece to eroded influence and you back that up with a Brexit campaign pdf. Ok..

*Sigh*

You asked for the 55 times we've voted against the EU and been ignored, so I provided that in detail, each and every one of the 55. You completely ignore all the other evidence that supports my argument and just say I'm "changing my tune". Eroded influence, no influence, what's the difference - the fact you're focusing on these sub plots and not the issues shows your argument is weak. And has been since you got personal many pages ago.

As you saw in the ONS numbers, Britain is not hampered by the EU and our services exports keep growing. Do you know what amazing trade deals the Swiss currently have out of EFTA? Again I suggest to consider the answer before posting the first Google link.

Huh? So presumably you don't dispute the EU is growing the slowest out of India, China, the US, Australia etc in the past 10 years as I proved from the data you linked to!

Switzerland has loads of great trade deals, like this one with China.

We are discussing Britain's service export market in China. The one you claimed is growing the fastest and which is actually contracting according to the ONS. Nice try tho.

Over the last 10 years our exports to the EU have grown by 75%, whilst our services exports to China have grown 130% and to Switzerland by 191%.

The fact you continue to focus on a 2 year time frame again just shows how weak your argument is.

By the way, you said you work in the City? I find it odd that someone working in the City would think services sales in China are growing fast considering it has gone through the worst stock market crash in its history. What do you actually do?

I work in capital markets.

Again, why only focus on the recent headlines? We're voting over a 40+ year timeframe, China still grew 6% last year despite the slowdown. You're saying our long term trading prospects with China are worth ignoring just because of its recent headlines? Nah, it's well known we need to up our deals with the likes of China, as per Cameron's and Osborne's recent dialogue:

UK Prime Minister David Cameron has cited the potential for Britain’s service industries to invest in China as key motivations for his government's aggressive courtship of the country.

Mr Osborne dreams of London becoming a major offshore centre for Chinese finance and views Beijing’s switch to consumer-led growth as a vast opportunity for UK services industries

It's actually 36% in 2014 and when you add EFTA it's 45%. Leaving the free trade block has the potential to affect a huge part of our services exports and there are no alternatives, no other possible clients for them in the short term.

Why are you adding EFTA again? You realise the debate is about Britain potentially joining EFTA and leaving the EU?

I'm done wasting my time on you.

 

[Mr Jack]

*snip snark*

So which of the points do you think is inaccurate?

 

[Avenged7Fold]

So which of the points do you think is inaccurate?

The cutting line down the middle seems to be off centre. The rest is probably about right.

 

[fish_dan]

Man the Pole is pretty 50/50, I wonder if this is foreshadowing to the vote coming soon...

Spoiler

Maybe it will be like Scotland's Referendum 2014

 

[Skunkworks]

So which of the points do you think is inaccurate?

The ones where remainers think they can predict what the EU will be in the coming decades.

 

[Mr Jack]

The ones where remainers think they can predict what the EU will be in the coming decades.

So the ones that aren't on there then?

 

[Outcast]

So the ones that aren't on there then?

I'm pretty sure you're aware anyone can fire up the gimp for their own version.
Brexiters obviously can't be bothered to play that silly game but rest assured....

ALL Brexiters WILL vote OUT

 

[Tefal]

So which of the points do you think is inaccurate?

every single one after the word "Know"

 

[bayo000]

The ones where remainers think they can predict what the EU will be in the coming decades.

Lol. I guess the leavers can predict everything then?
This is such a stupid argument used by the leavers. Do tell us where UK and EU will be in coming decades? While you're at it I wouldn't mind to know tomorrow's Lotto numbers, thanks.

Out=Nobody knows what is going to happen in future with no option to try to shape UK's biggest marketplace

In=Everything the same at least for next few years and opportunity to be part of deciding on future of EU.

 

[Tefal]

Out=Nobody knows what is going to happen in future with no option to try to shape UK's biggest marketplace

assuming the EU survives

 

[Skunkworks]

Do tell us where UK and EU will be in coming decades?

I don't know, but I have the intellectual honesty to admit it.

Out=Nobody knows what is going to happen in future with no option to try to shape UK's biggest marketplace

In=Everything the same at least for next few years and opportunity to be part of deciding on future of EU.

So you can predioct the "next few years", but demand remainers predict "coming decades"?

 

[Amp34]

Theresa May has blasted Remain campaign scaremongering as “nonsense“, admitting “of course” Britain could cope outside the EU:

“I want to deal with several arguments that should not count. The first is that in the 21st century Britain is too small a country to cope outside the European Union. That’s nonsense. We’re the fifth biggest economy in the world, we’re growing faster than any economy in the G7, we attract nearly a fifth of all foreign investment in the EU, we have a military capable of projecting its power around the world, intelligence services that are second to none, and friendships and alliances that go far beyond Europe. We have the greatest soft power in the world, we sit in exactly the right timezone for global trade and our language is the world’s language. Of course Britain could cope outside the European Union.”

And here is the killer line on what remaining in the EU means for immigration:

“Free movement rules mean it’s harder to control the volume of European immigration, and that is clearly no good thing.”

Anything Teresa "Stalin" May is for then I'm against. Another reason to stay in the EU...

It really is like the Scottish independence debate. Leave and it's all roses and flowers, with no evidence to back it up. Stay, with more real data and comments from relevant leaders of other nations is somehow the devil...

 

[Outcast]

Remember that phone call I got... Was it Yesterday ?

Well.... Apparently they DID !!

http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/...tion-leaflets-in-polish-and-english-1-7349287


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sive-tactics-win-support-local-elections.html

 

[RDM]

Anything Teresa "Stalin" May is for then I'm against. Another reason to stay in the EU

You might want to revise your vote then, pretty sure May's stated position is to remain in the EU.

 

[Outcast]

 

[bayo000]

I don't know, but I have the intellectual honesty to admit it.

So you can predioct the "next few years", but demand remainers predict "coming decades"?

No I "demanded" leavers to predict next few decades.

It's argument that is mostly used by the leave group yet they can't predict anymore than remainers. That's why i question that argument. But at least remain campaign has some data to base the predictions on.

For me a few is <5 so yeah I think it's pretty reasonable to assume EU will be pretty much the same in that time frame unless something big happens globally.

 

[Mr Jack]

every single one after the word "Know"

So let me get this straight, you don't think:

1. It's less likely we'll have free trade in the EU.
2. It's unlikely we'll continue to have a say in the rules and laws of Europe.
3. It's unlikely that free movement will continue (actually... I'll give you this one - it should have been 'less likely' rather than 'unlikely'. There's a chance that free movement will end but the most likely outcome is that we'll end up agreeing to free movement which will be hilarious when all the Brexiters who voted on immigration realise it).
4. It's unlikely we'll continue to be part of the EU healthcare scheme that grants free health care on holiday in the EU.
5. It's unlikely we'll still be covered by EU laws protecting workers, consumers and travellers rights.
6. It will take years to renegotiate access to all the trade agreements we're currently part of through the EU.
7. It's less likely we'll be part of the EU funded collaborations between doctors, scientists and lawyers, etc.
8. It's less likely we'll continue to be part of EU security, crime prevention and defence initiatives.

Do you have any arguments to back up this claim? Because it seems pretty straight forward to me that if we leave the organisation that gives us all these things we can't be sure we'll retain the benefits.

 

[Amp34]

The 55 are at the back of here. Together with evidence around how our % of votes in the council, our representation in the eu parliament and our influence in the commission have all been eroded.

So percentage of UK votes and percentage of UK seats on the council have gone down over the last 40 years, because, as the pdf glosses over, more countries have entered the EU. Of course they are going to go down, it's a democratic system.

So 55 no votes, out of how many votes in total?

So the UK got it's way 95% of the time. Pretty good don't you think?

And it also puts in this paragraph...

While national governments usually try and stop proposals that they don’t like from ever reaching the Council of the European Union, usually via working groups or via the Committee of Permanent Representatives (COREPER), there is no consistent source of information available for us to analyse such informal influence (COREPER doesn’t formally vote). What this research does instead is look at how much influence the UK has once a vote in the Council actually takes place. This gives an accurate depiction of the UK’s influence in the formal structures of the EU.

So there isn't actually any information on a major part of the system, where influence (rather than voting "power") is very important.

Of course the UK isn't going to be able to stop something coming into law at the voting stage, when the 24 other countries voting, vote yes (a significant proportion of the "no" votes are the UK voting against the rest of the EU).

Your one piece of evidence that we have influence (which is taken from EU officials themselves, so I wouldn't count it for much) is written by Simon Hix, who has himself quoted (Google it):

Which is funny considering your link is to a pdf written by a pro leave group. I guess that doesn't count for much either?

 

[Tunney]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sive-tactics-win-support-local-elections.html

It's funny how Zac Goldsmith's "Hey Asians, your gold is at risk if you vote Labour" leaflets never got much of a mention in the Daily Mail.

 

[Skunkworks]

Do you have any arguments to back up this claim? Because it seems pretty straight forward to me that if we leave the organisation that gives us all these things we can't be sure we'll retain the benefits.

It’s 100% definitely possible.