Soldato
- Joined
- 13 May 2003
- Posts
- 8,985
Reminds me of the old joke. "What's the difference between banking and rocket science? If banking was rocket science the Germans would be good at it."
Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)
- Thread starter Burnsy2023
- Start date
- Status
So let me get this straight. According to brexit supporters, the UK has almost no influence in the EU and no-one listen to us or gives a **** about us, yet if we leave, the EU will suddenly fall apart? I am guessing due to the lost influence and guidance the UK provides to the EU?
Not to mention, the EU was founded and ran without Britain for decades before we joined. Seemed to have survived fine before we joined
The EU will only fall apart if the UK leaves and is then given a great deal, thus encouraging other member states to start to leave. Due to this, the UK won't get a great deal and at most the EU will get a wake up call with the UK leaving and will have to start making necessary adjustments, which I am sure they will do to some extent.
P.S There are no sources to my theory, only common sense, which I know 99.5% of brexit supporters seems to lack.
A lot of brexit supporters seem to think the UK is still a world power / empire. Shame the rest of the world does not seem to view us as such (including the EU), other wise we would have never even gotten to this point with the EU.
Fantasy and Real world are two different things my friend.
So let me get this straight. According to brexit supporters, the UK has almost no influence in the EU and no-one listen to us or gives a **** about us, yet if we leave, the EU will suddenly fall apart? I am guessing due to the lost influence and guidance the UK provides to the EU?
Yep. We have never won a vote in the EU. The EU treats the UK like dirt and a cash cow..
So let me get this straight. According to brexit supporters, the UK has almost no influence in the EU and no-one listen to us or gives a **** about us, yet if we leave, the EU will suddenly fall apart? I am guessing due to the lost influence and guidance the UK provides to the EU?
They're not mutually exclusive statements. The UK has little influence on the EU, they're happy to accept our money but unhappy that they have to actually accept our input.
That doesn't mean that if we left it wouldn't set off a chain reaction and loss of confidence in the EU. It's not really a difficult concept to understand frankly
And once we leave, they still start treating us like royalty and will bend over for us.
If things are already as bad as you say, I wonder where we are going to get this better deal from....
It won't set off a chain reaction straight away. Everyone will simply look, see what the UK get out of it and then decided if going at it alone is worth it.
That's why it is in majority member states interest to ensure that the UK gets a s.hit deal. To stop any potential chain reactions you speak of. It's not really a difficult concept to understand frankly.
Never won a vote?
What do you mean by that? What kind of vote?
If we are talking about passing EU legislation then we have "won" almost 95% of the votes.
Soldato
- Joined
- 13 May 2003
- Posts
- 8,985
One topic not really widely discussed is what happens if we vote to leave but delay triggering Article 50. For instance a leave vote may end in a change of PM. The new PM would be wise to negotiate prior to triggering secession. The reason I say this is because tge 2 year timetable is probably too short for both us and the EU. But extension requires unanimous agreement which will allow small nations to demand concessions which would be politically toxic for the core countries.
Control of the timetable for Article 50 is a tool to be wisely deployed.
Control of the timetable for Article 50 is a tool to be wisely deployed.
Cameron has said he will invoke Article 50 the day after the referendum should we vote to Leave. I think this is the correct approach as I expect the EU to simply refuse to negotiate our leaving until we do.
The 2 year timetable is ominous on paper but providing we negotiate in good faith I think there is little reason to think we wouldn't get an extension.
Suspended
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 9,480
What is infantile is the inability to recognise that a strong and capable military is not only essential in the modern World in and of itself, but is an essential component of being taken seriously politically. An iron fist inside a velvet glove. As true in antiquity as it is today.
What is also infantile is the inability to recognise that we are perfectly capable of negotiating politically; that ability doesn't disappear if we leave the EU.
Be less hysterical. If that's possible.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Lol. There's only one iron fist in the world right now, it's called the US and it leads an alliance called NATO which consists of Britain along with most other EU members.. Keep dreaming about the antiquity, total war games or whatever it is that you use to form your ridiculous arguments.
Yeah exactly, they will put their economies first. A chain reaction from the UK leaving, breaking up the EU / Euro would have a FAR bigger and worse effect on their economies than having a worse trade deal with one country....
Spin it anyway you want my friend, a break up of the EU / Euro is a worst case scenario for all member states. As another poster said, UK leaving could cause a chain reaction of the break up of the union. They will do everything possible to discourage the break up and the most effective way of doing this is by giving the UK a bad deal and showing everyone else, that going alone is a mistake.
Precisely because they are concerned about their economies, they will never give us a good deal. A better deal for the UK outside EU, is the end of their of the union and the destruction of their economies.
Its either small economic hurt (giving UK a bad deal) or a potential catastrophic collapse of the EU / Euro and their economies. If it comes down to this choice (and highly likely it will) then they will screw the UK and not the EU & themselves.
Where is the EU's good deal when trading with the worlds 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th largest economies then? Where is the tariff free trade with Japan?
We buy lots from Japan, Japan buy lots from us.. yet we levy tariffs and so do they...
But they will cut off their nose, if it prevents the collapse of the EU / Euro. Do you honestly think that member states will chose UK over their union and their economies?
Suspended
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 9,480
Lol. There's only one iron fist in the world right now, it's called the US and it leads an alliance called NATO which consists of Britain along with most other EU members.. Keep dreaming about the antiquity, total war games or whatever it is that you use to form your ridiculous arguments.
*sigh*
I don't even...
[TW]Fox;29439546 said:
A lot of people are living in a bubble. They are proud of their country and in effect because of that put to high of an importance, thinking we are in the centre of the universe.
A lot of people will be in for a shock if we do leave. It will be a rude awakening of where our neighbours rate us in terms of importance.
- Status