Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)

[Nelly]

A Romanian in my Town convicted of raping a women, previously had a series of convictions in Romania, including a prison sentence of 12 years in 2005 for robbery during the night-time.

http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/Cleethorpes-alleyway-rapist-suspected-sex-crimes/story-29112507-detail/story.html

He also had other prison sentences, including of eight years, seven years, five years and 18 months for offences such as aggravated larceny, larceny and theft. We shouldn't be allowing these people in if they already committed serious crimes.

Another one here in this article. EU Law, protecting humans and monsters alike.

 

[phil675]

He also had other prison sentences, including of eight years, seven years, five years and 18 months for offences such as aggravated larceny, larceny and theft. We shouldn't be allowing these people in if they already committed serious crimes.

Another one here in this article. EU Law, protecting humans and monsters alike.

Such idiocy, so much control has been handed over that we can't even stop a proven criminal from staying here.

inb4 'but our rapists can retire in Spain!'

 

[Tefal]

I thought we cpuld block criminals?

Why cant the guy be deported family life etc?

Cause were able to deport other eu criminals

 

[adam cool dude]

I thought we cpuld block criminals?

Why cant the guy be deported family life etc?

Cause were able to deport other eu criminals

I remember a story in the local news of a Latvian man that killed a woman on a moped while drunk driving. It wasn't till then that the police had found out he done time for garotting someone to death. Similar to the people who were killed or injured when thier moonshine business exploded a couple of years back!

 

[helpimcrap]

Apparently if we stay in (although we'll probably be made to pay if we leave) we have to pay Turkey £2bn to 'adapt' to the EU or something before entry into EU?

Also we are being sued by the EU for unfairly charging foreign lorries to use our roads?

Is this true?

 

[Cosimo]

Latest polls:

 

[Locky]

Also we are being sued by the EU for unfairly charging foreign lorries to use our roads?

Is this true?

Seems so.. Warning daily mail link.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Britain-unfair-road-tolls-foreign-trucks.html

 

[Metallifux]

Such idiocy, so much control has been handed over that we can't even stop a proven criminal from staying here.

inb4 'but our rapists can retire in Spain!'

Hahahaha that's mint.

 

[Narj]

Apparently Brexit will cost a month's wages by 2020. I'll pay now if they want as it seems like a bargain?

 

[Metallifux]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36150193

These economists just can't agree.

 

[delta0]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36150193

These economists just can't agree.

I was about to post that link! The UK will be much better off out of the EU. Norway, Switzerland etc. pay a lot less into the EU, only have laws where necessary, still have free trade and free movement, and they are much better off because of it. It is less of the worst bits and more of the best bits. They can also negotiate their own trade agreements with outside of EU countries without having to involve the EU at all.

 

[Trifid]

Seems so.. Warning daily mail link.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Britain-unfair-road-tolls-foreign-trucks.html

Just change the law so that all lorries driven on UK roads must pay UK road tax. Then it is fair for all.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

There are economists on both sides and most simplified models which estimate x% up or down by 20xx are oversimplified and either wishful or fearful.

As for the EU road thing, it can be spun two ways. As i understand there are road tolls on mainland Europe which all HGV are required to pay regardless of which country they are from and it is illegal to charge one European driver different to another. We don't have toll roads over here for locals but charge other European countries to use our roads. This probably would not seem that bad, though a little unfair and against EU rules, if it wasn't for also heavily reducing UK HGV tax at the same time. The toll just looks like a way to shift the tax of local truck drivers to foreign truck drivers. So its pretty easy to see that you can spin it as the EU being unreasonable or the UK as being unreasonable but there was never any question that this went against EU rules before it was implemented and there have been other road laws in countries like Germany that have been blocked by the EU when seen as unfair.

Just change the law so that all lorries driven on UK roads must pay UK road tax. Then it is fair for all.

There would be no issue if this was the case.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Economists on both sides... but the US Treasury, the UK Treasury, the IMF, the WTO, the OECD, etc have all said Brexit would be bad for us. Which respected international organisation has said we'd be better off, or as well off, after a Brexit?

I am of the opinion that economically we will be worse off out of the UK both short term and long. I have nothing more concrete than anyone else in this thread. I also cannot help but feel that the average economist being quoted for brexit essentially is saying: with the money we save from the eu per year, multiplied by year and investment index we would gain xxxxxxx much!' Which is stupid as operating outside the EU would have its own costs to factor in (which are considerable if we manage to get stricter border controls and make up the science funding) as well as a rocky path as far as foreign investment and European trade businesses go.

Saying we wont know exactly what will happen and therefore arguments against are fear mongering is also ridiculous, we know what is possible to happen and what is unlikely to happen. Proclaiming we will suddenly get 77m of Turkish immigrants and a super general leading the EU army across the world is nothing short of stupid but so is fear of the UK becoming a developing country after we have lost support of the EU.

 

[Mulder]

You know, for all that the UK loves to bash the Euro right now, it's interesting that within the Eurozone support for the Euro remains high (source, or less recent unpaywalled source for those who can't access it).

That's because they're already in the Euro and getting out (as we've seen/are seeing with Greece) is very challenging. I don't really see how that's relevant to the question of whether Britain is better in or out of the EU.

I suspect if you asked the more relevant question of "If you could have foreseen the huge problems of the Euro/Eurozone bailouts/massive unemployment etc, would you have joined the Euro in the first place" the answer I suspect (certainly from Greece) would be a resounding no.

The Eurozone/Euro has had major structural problems right from the start, and what we've seen/are seeing is only just the beginning. Here, here, here and here.

I'd find it pretty extraordinary if such a wide range of commentators were ignoring what is best for the British people.

But you shouldn't weight the opinion of those in authority as more valuable just because they are the authority. There are arguments on both sides, and some key opinions (like the recent CEO of HSBC) have put very strong cases for Brexit too. Would you discount his argument just because he happens to not be the CEO of HSBC anymore?

The IMF (for example) has a vested interest in the EU as they've lent so much to Greece. Of course they will say anything to try and keep the EU together. That for me is a more important consideration as I think about what they're saying, rather than just "but they're the IMF".

 

[Metallifux]

Snip
The IMF (for example) has a vested interest in the EU as they've lent so much to Greece. Of course they will say anything to try and keep the EU together. That for me is a more important consideration as I think about what they're saying, rather than just "but they're the IMF".

Meaning they have a vested interest in keeping the UK in the EU as a net contributor.

 

[adam cool dude]

Saying we wont know exactly what will happen and therefore arguments against are fear mongering is also ridiculous, we know what is possible to happen and what is unlikely to happen. Proclaiming we will suddenly get 77m of Turkish immigrants and a super general leading the EU army across the world is nothing short of stupid but so is fear of the UK becoming a developing country after we have lost support of the EU.

If we leave the EU there will be no EU to lose the support of. France would be the next to hold a referendum and Germany are not going to hold up all the other poor countries.

For me the financial gain or loss of EU membership doesn't bother me. I would rather be worse off for the rest of my life than live in a system that is heading out of control.

Also at least if we all vote to leave the EU could make a deal with us to stay. They know as well as we know that the EU can not survive without us.

 

[Zethor]

If we leave the EU there will be no EU to lose the support of. France would be the next to hold a referendum and Germany are not going to hold up all the other poor countries.

For me the financial gain or loss of EU membership doesn't bother me. I would rather be worse off for the rest of my life than live in a system that is heading out of control.

The EU falling apart would make the 2008 crash look like a walk in the park. You will get your country back but there will be no shelves for you people to stack.

 

[Mulder]

I don't really see his case as 'very strong'. Can you point out what makes it a very strong argument? It seems bang average and completely uninspiring.

He was the CEO of one of the largest banks in the world for 5 years. He makes valid points about how we're a net customer of the EU, we import £68bn more goods than we sell there each year. He makes valid points about London being the financial capital of the world. He makes interesting points about how the EU started as a Coal and Steel community, and is now a centralised organisation intent on taking away national sovereignty.

You need to take your own view at some point. Evidence can point to this, can point to that, but ultimately there's no absolute right or wrong that can be scientifically proven, you have to form your own opinion based on the evidence available.

He says we can trade with the EU when out of it - of course we can, no one rational is denying that, but like he says we'll still have the free movement of people... isn't that the single biggest issue concerning Brexit supporters?! Would they want Brexit if free movement of people remained?

You're suggesting it's guaranteed we will still have free movement if we left. Nothing is guaranteed, it's a negotiation. Yes Norway and Switzerland have free movement, but Switzerland is arguing with the EU on that and many countries are going against what the EU wants anyway, putting up barriers, stopping Shengen etc.

For me it's actually pretty low down on the list of reasons to want to leave anyway.

His assertion that nothing will be done to harm our financial services, then saying we could be like Switzerland seems bizarre, too.

Not sure I get your point. Switzerland is one of the richest most prosperous countries on the planet and financial services and insurance is one of their main industries.

 

[Mr Jack]

Is it better to be a pampered Slave than a poor free Man?

This is a stupid analogy for the EU referendum. The main reason I have for wanting to stay in the EU is the enormous increase in freedom it affords us (i.e. freedom to live and work anywhere in Europe). Being in the EU increases, rather than decreases, the individual freedoms we - the British people - enjoy.

At the governmental level things are more complex but the idea that we'd swan off into a land where we can just be what we want to be is complete nonsense. The fact is that whatever scenario we end up in post-Brexit we will continue to need to negotiate and compromise with other nations and the EU in particular. Being in the EU means that we enjoy much increased influence over these decisions.

A "Norway" option post-Brexit would result in us being bound by a host of rules we no longer have a say in. Some freedom!