unlike the leave camp? Fear of Turkey Joining the EU, Distrust of anyone from outside the UK coming to live/work here and the uncertainty of the future direction of the EU super states et al.
Frankly both campaigns are a Joke at this point.
Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)
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unlike the leave camp? Fear of Turkey Joining the EU, Distrust of anyone from outside the UK coming to live/work here and the uncertainty of the future direction of the EU super states et al.
Frankly both campaigns are a Joke at this point.
Soldato
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^Don't be afraid, Zethor.
Yeah the Turkey thing is a negative message too, both sides have lots of those. My point is the Leave campaign is the only one with any positive message at all. The only one saying "things could be better than they are now".
What is it the Leave camp are identifying as a positive improvement?
Economically any claims that we're better off out, seem a bit far fetched.
Sovereignty is an issue the leave campaign could claim as "a positive" although IMHO fptp "democratic" British legislation like the "snoopers charter" is far from ideal.
Also controlling our borders will be interesting post any Brexit, I seriously doubt ANY government is likely to take this issue as far as many of the exit campaigners are asking for.
I've yet to see much positive campaigning from either side.
If the content is so good, let's see the facts, the evidence, the economists that support it. Link those here so we can all look at them, share your wisdom, cure my ignorance!
Otherwise it's empty talk so yes I will shoot it down and rightfully so.
Soldato
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So you could Google for 30 seconds, find they made a typo 10 years ago, and then declare them clueless because they disagree with you?
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Are you suggesting G Dubya Bush and Ronald Reagan were experts on America's inner workings. I'd suggest that the President is the least knowledgeable and the Senate and Congress is where the real machinations take place.
Haha no, you're getting off of this one easily. You're not going to dig yourself out of the massive hole you've dug for yourself.
This was initially a talk about the quality of interviewees and now you want me to cite content? Nothing to do with what we were talking about
0/5 for your u-turn.
Here's your flipflops
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Debunk and discredit her on....
The Breakdown of the Social Contract and the Rise of Geopolitics.
Not her opinion on Obama's speech and brexit?
That is the line that Zethor is towing. Apparently its legitimate grounds for dismissing everything about her as clueless.
I personally have no idea, I didn't even find what she said to be either for or against Brexit, she simply stated some obvious facts, e.g., no matter the outcome, the UK will be fine.
But, this kind of fence sitting is tantamount to being a herpderp™ racist in the eyes of some.
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I'm not about to argue with you. I'm on the out side and have always been, nothing is going to change that. Racist is a term that certain groups/individuals like to throw around to make themselves or their point seem superior. I have learned to ignore it where it doesn't fit.
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...As long as it serves the US.
Interesting comment for him to make after supporting the Remain campaign, the very epitome of pessimism and cynicism.
Aye, I was thinking that was more of a statement in support of leaving to be honestInteresting comment for him to make after supporting the Remain campaign, the very epitome of pessimism and cynicism.
Soldato
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I had a decent meal so I'll indulge your Tube link.
Not quite so: she offered personal opinion on the intervention. All well and good. Whether you choose to take it at face value is up to you. But even your example is rather broad: her version of 'fine'; as in what scenario and by what measure? The UK will be 'fine' only in as far as it will keep going, as the UK or without Scotland, in or out. However, that's just a longer version of 'meh, I like the sound of my voice'.
How any of that would relate to your bottom line depends on your assumptions, the data you use and the economic models you adopt; neither she nor Vote Leave have furnished one such model for comparison to the Treasury's forecasts. And they are rightly being taken to task for failing to distinguish between gross and net in their basic marketing figures in the meantime.
If all you had to do was to just sound positive, I could tell you that: we were destined (top Bushism right there) to dominate the EU, our GDP growth shall be 10% per year for the next century, and the resurrection of the British Empire on the side is imminent. It's not quite that easy.
Anyway...
Like with Boris, if the person has a history of tending to be pulled up on factual matters, and trying to pass on their opinions as such, in their work, it's a good reason to develop a healthy scepticism of whatever they are peddling.
Now, I personally thought the lady gave a rather non-committal reply -- perfect establishment; she has spoken for four minutes about nothing: yes; no; it's rather odd to me; no probs either way. Frankly I'm left with an impression she didn't give a toss all that much.
Yet another tick in the column for why we on the Remain side maintain the 'wing it and see' opinion of Brexit, as most of it's just hot air not backed by anything concrete.
Not quite so: she offered personal opinion on the intervention. All well and good. Whether you choose to take it at face value is up to you. But even your example is rather broad: her version of 'fine'; as in what scenario and by what measure? The UK will be 'fine' only in as far as it will keep going, as the UK or without Scotland, in or out. However, that's just a longer version of 'meh, I like the sound of my voice'.
How any of that would relate to your bottom line depends on your assumptions, the data you use and the economic models you adopt; neither she nor Vote Leave have furnished one such model for comparison to the Treasury's forecasts. And they are rightly being taken to task for failing to distinguish between gross and net in their basic marketing figures in the meantime.
If all you had to do was to just sound positive, I could tell you that: we were destined (top Bushism right there) to dominate the EU, our GDP growth shall be 10% per year for the next century, and the resurrection of the British Empire on the side is imminent. It's not quite that easy.
Anyway...
Like with Boris, if the person has a history of tending to be pulled up on factual matters, and trying to pass on their opinions as such, in their work, it's a good reason to develop a healthy scepticism of whatever they are peddling.
Now, I personally thought the lady gave a rather non-committal reply -- perfect establishment; she has spoken for four minutes about nothing: yes; no; it's rather odd to me; no probs either way. Frankly I'm left with an impression she didn't give a toss all that much.
Yet another tick in the column for why we on the Remain side maintain the 'wing it and see' opinion of Brexit, as most of it's just hot air not backed by anything concrete.
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What will the EU look like in 10 years, datalol-jack?
What will our membership fee be?
How much will we get back?
What will the population of UK be?
What countries will join or leave the EU?
How will the migration crisis affect the continent?
What extra laws will we have imposed on us?
How much more polical integration will there be?
How will staying affect class sizes?
How will staying affect school places?
I'd hate to think that after all your bluster it's just a 'wing it and see' opinion of remain.
What will our membership fee be?
How much will we get back?
What will the population of UK be?
What countries will join or leave the EU?
How will the migration crisis affect the continent?
What extra laws will we have imposed on us?
How much more polical integration will there be?
How will staying affect class sizes?
How will staying affect school places?
I'd hate to think that after all your bluster it's just a 'wing it and see' opinion of remain.
Brexiters call pro-EU camp "project fear" - yet they themselves rely purely on almost childish optimism ("it's going to be ok, it just will") and base their entire argument on fear. Fear of the "foreigners stealing dem jewbs". Fear of Polish, Romanian, Turkish wildlings flooding the island "tomorrow" - ravaging the women, thieving work for low wage and filling up bedrooms 20 a bed until the last Briton falls of the cliff in Dover onto the sea from overcrowding. Fear of some sort of mythical masonic cabal of blue and golden starred flag waving countries playing evil political chess with Blighty, trying to weaken "her position" and strip the country from "her sovereignty" by imposing "laws made in Brussels". Terrible, nasty laws squeezing the very last drops of pommyness out of repressed Britons - the laws about uniform 'best before' labels on products and equal pay or worse yet - longer holidays (oh no, not the longer holidays, god please, noooo).
In Brexiter's mind the future, EU free, "sovereign Britain" will somehow stop European migration and impose visas (without affecting daily transit of goods and business), maybe even points system or at least stringent quotas on who can stay on the island and why. While Britons, in return, will of course roam free across the lands and be welcomed everywhere they want to go (preferably with flowers), because, well, that's a given, right - they're Britons, innit?
Brexiters presume that manufacturers, businesses and foreign investments that rely on trade with EU for survival will remain in Britain post Brexit, because, oh, I don't know - Britain is just so well known for being cheapest place in Europe and synonymous with dedication and discipline of the workforce that it would be stupid not to. Plus of course, they won't have to go away because EU (wait for it) will make a special case and exception for us. They will give us full access to the market, while not expecting us to pay anything, and without us having to comply with any uniform laws. And of course we won't let any unworthy European past our doorstep. They will do it all because they owe us. It's only fair. Or something.
If they won't do it immediately, don't worry - according to Brexiters Britain will always have an upper hand in negotiating "better terms" with EU common market (what are better terms than being unrestricted part of it btw, I don't know?) because "we are their biggest importer", you see? I don't fully understand that argument - I'm presuming that because we desperately need their products that's somehow an advantage? In other words - one sunny summer day Britain exits EU, the very next day British production quotas for anything from sugar, through milk to fish are divided between remaining nations, British protected products stop being protected, farmers stop getting agricultural subsidies, underperforming rural areas like Cornwall stop receiving EU regional development funds - and the island still need continental products to survive and have to buy them from abroad. Wait. What? Isn't that like the best gift you can give to the rest of the countries?
Should that fail, Britain could always try to become partner with Canada or US. I mean, US President says "amm.. you are at the back of the queue, we are not making any exceptions for you", but what does he know - he is on the way out. Plus, some third water advisor lady to one of the Bushes said on TV that it's going to be ok. Ish.
Borat two thumbs up for optimism and stuff, but gents - what the Farage is wrong with you lot? Are you really that xenophobic and scared of "dem job stealers" that you would just bet on coin toss between becoming European non entity like Iceland and staying as one of the funding members with veto powers within the biggest economic entity in history of the continent? Only because you fear it might be up to no good in the future?
In Brexiter's mind the future, EU free, "sovereign Britain" will somehow stop European migration and impose visas (without affecting daily transit of goods and business), maybe even points system or at least stringent quotas on who can stay on the island and why. While Britons, in return, will of course roam free across the lands and be welcomed everywhere they want to go (preferably with flowers), because, well, that's a given, right - they're Britons, innit?
Brexiters presume that manufacturers, businesses and foreign investments that rely on trade with EU for survival will remain in Britain post Brexit, because, oh, I don't know - Britain is just so well known for being cheapest place in Europe and synonymous with dedication and discipline of the workforce that it would be stupid not to. Plus of course, they won't have to go away because EU (wait for it) will make a special case and exception for us. They will give us full access to the market, while not expecting us to pay anything, and without us having to comply with any uniform laws. And of course we won't let any unworthy European past our doorstep. They will do it all because they owe us. It's only fair. Or something.
If they won't do it immediately, don't worry - according to Brexiters Britain will always have an upper hand in negotiating "better terms" with EU common market (what are better terms than being unrestricted part of it btw, I don't know?) because "we are their biggest importer", you see? I don't fully understand that argument - I'm presuming that because we desperately need their products that's somehow an advantage? In other words - one sunny summer day Britain exits EU, the very next day British production quotas for anything from sugar, through milk to fish are divided between remaining nations, British protected products stop being protected, farmers stop getting agricultural subsidies, underperforming rural areas like Cornwall stop receiving EU regional development funds - and the island still need continental products to survive and have to buy them from abroad. Wait. What? Isn't that like the best gift you can give to the rest of the countries?
Should that fail, Britain could always try to become partner with Canada or US. I mean, US President says "amm.. you are at the back of the queue, we are not making any exceptions for you", but what does he know - he is on the way out. Plus, some third water advisor lady to one of the Bushes said on TV that it's going to be ok. Ish.
Borat two thumbs up for optimism and stuff, but gents - what the Farage is wrong with you lot? Are you really that xenophobic and scared of "dem job stealers" that you would just bet on coin toss between becoming European non entity like Iceland and staying as one of the funding members with veto powers within the biggest economic entity in history of the continent? Only because you fear it might be up to no good in the future?
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He did say British Petroleum... There was a lot of finger pointing and slopey shoulders going on with the 50% American owned company at the time.
How loliferous is the use of Obama's words' back of the queue' so obviously typed out by Cameron for him to readthe last word is not even in the USA's general vocabulary -they say 'end of the line'
Perhaps he/ his writers tailored it to British vocabulary, as after all it was a speech aimed at the British...
Soldato
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The president and his government have the resources, information and staff much superior to your average senator or congressman, or indeed one of our romping and stomping MPs. How they choose to use it all is up to them, however.
I think people are just miffed at Obama telling Brexiters not to put words in his mouth and to think again about their atlanticist speculation. It's perhaps also prudent to point out that the inauguration of the next US president isn't tomorrow, and any relevant negotiations post-Brexit will begin under Obama's watch. Again, thinking you're special enough to get a special deal on cue and at short notice isn't the same as having real, meaningful leverage. If we had any such aces, they would've been the worst kept Brexit secrets. Alas...
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