Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 452 45.0%
  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 553 55.0%

  • Total voters
    1,005
  • Poll closed .
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Brexiters call pro-EU camp "project fear" - yet they themselves rely purely on almost childish optimism ("it's going to be ok, it just will") and base their entire argument on fear. Fear of the "foreigners stealing dem jewbs". Fear of Polish, Romanian, Turkish wildlings flooding the island "tomorrow" - ravaging the women, thieving work for low wage and filling up bedrooms 20 a bed until the last Briton falls of the cliff in Dover onto the sea from overcrowding. Fear of some sort of mythical masonic cabal of blue and golden starred flag waving countries playing evil political chess with Blighty, trying to weaken "her position" and strip the country from "her sovereignty" by imposing "laws made in Brussels". Terrible, nasty laws squeezing the very last drops of pommyness out of repressed Britons - the laws about uniform 'best before' labels on products and equal pay or worse yet - longer holidays (oh no, not the longer holidays, god please, noooo).

In Brexiter's mind the future, EU free, "sovereign Britain" will somehow stop European migration and impose visas (without affecting daily transit of goods and business), maybe even points system or at least stringent quotas on who can stay on the island and why. While Britons, in return, will of course roam free across the lands and be welcomed everywhere they want to go (preferably with flowers), because, well, that's a given, right - they're Britons, innit?

Brexiters presume that manufacturers, businesses and foreign investments that rely on trade with EU for survival will remain in Britain post Brexit, because, oh, I don't know - Britain is just so well known for being cheapest place in Europe and synonymous with dedication and discipline of the workforce that it would be stupid not to. Plus of course, they won't have to go away because EU (wait for it) will make a special case and exception for us. They will give us full access to the market, while not expecting us to pay anything, and without us having to comply with any uniform laws. And of course we won't let any unworthy European past our doorstep. They will do it all because they owe us. It's only fair. Or something.

If they won't do it immediately, don't worry - according to Brexiters Britain will always have an upper hand in negotiating "better terms" with EU common market (what are better terms than being unrestricted part of it btw, I don't know?) because "we are their biggest importer", you see? I don't fully understand that argument - I'm presuming that because we desperately need their products that's somehow an advantage? In other words - one sunny summer day Britain exits EU, the very next day British production quotas for anything from sugar, through milk to fish are divided between remaining nations, British protected products stop being protected, farmers stop getting agricultural subsidies, underperforming rural areas like Cornwall stop receiving EU regional development funds - and the island still need continental products to survive and have to buy them from abroad. Wait. What? Isn't that like the best gift you can give to the rest of the countries?

Should that fail, Britain could always try to become partner with Canada or US. I mean, US President says "amm.. you are at the back of the queue, we are not making any exceptions for you", but what does he know - he is on the way out. Plus, some third water advisor lady to one of the Bushes said on TV that it's going to be ok. Ish.

Borat two thumbs up for optimism and stuff, but gents - what the Farage is wrong with you lot? Are you really that xenophobic and scared of "dem job stealers" that you would just bet on coin toss between becoming European non entity like Iceland and staying as one of the funding members with veto powers within the biggest economic entity in history of the continent? Only because you fear it might be up to no good in the future?

Got to be honest I'm a little bit drunk and can't be bothered to wade in to this miasma of.... whatever it is, but I'll agree that funding is right. An extremely correct term for our position in the EU.
 
That of course, makes my point invalid. Hanging head in shame and going to the back of the queue line.
 
The president and his government have the resources, information and staff much superior to your average senator or congressman, or indeed one of our romping and stomping MPs. How they choose to use it all is up to them, however.

I think people are just miffed at Obama telling Brexiters not to put words in his mouth and to think again about their atlanticist speculation. It's perhaps also prudent to point out that the inauguration of the next US president isn't tomorrow, and any relevant negotiations post-Brexit will begin under Obama's watch. Again, thinking you're special enough to get a special deal on cue and at short notice isn't the same as having real, meaningful leverage. If we had any such aces, they would've been the worst kept Brexit secrets. Alas...

I'm not aware Brexiter's put any words in Obama's mouth? Cameron's speech writers did that just dandy. So the referendum is in June and the US elections are in November? With the new president being sworn in in January? If a vote to leave wins and the up to two year exit strategy takes place, yes I'm sure Obama's hands are going to be all over it.
 
That of course, makes my point invalid. Hanging head in shame and going to the back of the queue line.

I didn't invalidate your point. I'm sorry it was just a little bit tldr and I did pick up on your slight keyboard aberration and use it to my advantage. I apologise.
 
Brexiters call pro-EU camp "project fear" - yet they themselves rely purely on almost childish optimism ("it's going to be ok, it just will") and base their entire argument on fear. Fear of the "foreigners stealing dem jewbs". Fear of Polish, Romanian, Turkish wildlings flooding the island "tomorrow" - ravaging the women, thieving work for low wage and filling up bedrooms 20 a bed until the last Briton falls of the cliff in Dover onto the sea from overcrowding. Fear of some sort of mythical masonic cabal of blue and golden starred flag waving countries playing evil political chess with Blighty, trying to weaken "her position" and strip the country from "her sovereignty" by imposing "laws made in Brussels". Terrible, nasty laws squeezing the very last drops of pommyness out of repressed Britons - the laws about uniform 'best before' labels on products and equal pay or worse yet - longer holidays (oh no, not the longer holidays, god please, noooo).

In Brexiter's mind the future, EU free, "sovereign Britain" will somehow stop European migration and impose visas (without affecting daily transit of goods and business), maybe even points system or at least stringent quotas on who can stay on the island and why. While Britons, in return, will of course roam free across the lands and be welcomed everywhere they want to go (preferably with flowers), because, well, that's a given, right - they're Britons, innit?

Brexiters presume that manufacturers, businesses and foreign investments that rely on trade with EU for survival will remain in Britain post Brexit, because, oh, I don't know - Britain is just so well known for being cheapest place in Europe and synonymous with dedication and discipline of the workforce that it would be stupid not to. Plus of course, they won't have to go away because EU (wait for it) will make a special case and exception for us. They will give us full access to the market, while not expecting us to pay anything, and without us having to comply with any uniform laws. And of course we won't let any unworthy European past our doorstep. They will do it all because they owe us. It's only fair. Or something.

If they won't do it immediately, don't worry - according to Brexiters Britain will always have an upper hand in negotiating "better terms" with EU common market (what are better terms than being unrestricted part of it btw, I don't know?) because "we are their biggest importer", you see? I don't fully understand that argument - I'm presuming that because we desperately need their products that's somehow an advantage? In other words - one sunny summer day Britain exits EU, the very next day British production quotas for anything from sugar, through milk to fish are divided between remaining nations, British protected products stop being protected, farmers stop getting agricultural subsidies, underperforming rural areas like Cornwall stop receiving EU regional development funds - and the island still need continental products to survive and have to buy them from abroad. Wait. What? Isn't that like the best gift you can give to the rest of the countries?

Should that fail, Britain could always try to become partner with Canada or US. I mean, US President says "amm.. you are at the back of the queue, we are not making any exceptions for you", but what does he know - he is on the way out. Plus, some third water advisor lady to one of the Bushes said on TV that it's going to be ok. Ish.

Borat two thumbs up for optimism and stuff, but gents - what the Farage is wrong with you lot? Are you really that xenophobic and scared of "dem job stealers" that you would just bet on coin toss between becoming European non entity like Iceland and staying as one of the funding members with veto powers within the biggest economic entity in history of the continent? Only because you fear it might be up to no good in the future?

I very rarely use the like button on Facebook but in this case, if this was a Facebook post I would definitely "like" that. :p
 
It's whataboutery on your part though, which attempts to stir attention away from real economic risks and costs of Brexit, conflating domestic, European and even global matters to boost the bluff to the gills; and we can play at it for days on end.

What will the EU look like in 10 years, datalol-jack?

What will our membership fee be? Net: £9-6 bn.
How much will we get back? Less than now on a smaller contribution. Our rebate is calculated on the basis of the funding and other investment we get from the EU. It's never been a secret. Yes, we know the Daily Mail's clinging on desperately to its recently snipped quarterly projection.
What will the population of UK be? 70 million.
What countries will join or leave the EU? In ten years? None.
How will the migration crisis affect the continent? And this a relevant question how? It'll affect us either way. If you're such a bleeding heart, you'll be pleased that the refugee numbers are falling. Yes, we know the Spectator warns us of remaining vigilant.
What extra laws will we have imposed on us? Whatever our goverment has signed up to and supports. Elect muppets get peanuts, we've been over this before. But again, you can check it publicly, petition and campaign for whatever's your fancy; here's the programme for 2016: https://ec.europa.eu/priorities/work-programme-2016_en some of that stuff, like the new migration measures, will stretch on for a few years. Some things we've campaigned for for a while, exempt from the rest. It's good to be at the decision table.
How much more polical integration will there be? We're exempt from all such integration, maintain our veto and can opt into what suits us whenever. The core members will pursue further fiscal integration in line with the wider interest of the Euro. And we've always wished them the very best of luck with that.

How will staying affect class sizes? ----|
How will staying affect school places? ----| Purely a function of our government's spending plans. If the cuts continue, and the academy programme faces further hiccups, expect shortages. They know what is needed. And neither issue would magically vanish upon Brexit over the ten year period.

I'd hate to think that after all your bluster it's just a 'wing it and see' opinion of remain. You think?

I admit to a margin of error in all figures based on projections, but like the election hoo-ha, they won't be far off for the decade. Since your ilk dismiss our government and EU's official projections and statistics without anything to offer in return however, is there really a point reposting stuff from past threads? It's all 'Project Fear' innit?
 
Interesting that you say the UK's contribution will only be 6 to 9 billion. Right now, it's 13 billion, and that's with the rebate deducted. We get about 4.5 billion back from the EU investing in the UK, so our net contribution is £8.5 billion.

And yet you're claiming our membership fee (not even net contribution) will be 6 to 9 billion? How? Why would you expect that to decrease over time rather than increase?
 
I've voted leave. If we remain then I can manage, as long as some things change, e.g. stuff that doesn't affect the rest of the EU, why can they vote on it. Let us choose what affects us.

I do see the huge benefits in staying in regarding EU trade though..
 
Interesting that you say the UK's contribution will only be 6 to 9 billion. Right now, it's 13 billion, and that's with the rebate deducted. We get about 4.5 billion back from the EU investing in the UK, so our net contribution is £8.5 billion.

And yet you're claiming our membership fee (not even net contribution) will be 6 to 9 billion? How? Why would you expect that to decrease over time rather than increase?

Actually, it's not my extrapolation for our net contribution, the estimates came at various points from the Treasury, Eurostat, ONS and OBR, and you had the link to one such projection's source on FullFact anyway. Here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...83344/EU_finances_2015_final_web_09122015.pdf.

Page 17. Fairly recent. The OBR has a slightly different take. On average the figure will be slightly over 9.3 billion, give or take the stated margins of error. I gave the most and least optimistic values in summary since Skunks doesn't believe anyone or anything, and always suspects hidden motives.

I'm happy with this trend considering what we get back, especially in trade, the Brexiters aren't and want a 'special deal'; nobody knows what that 'special deal' is, and so the Chancellor quite rightly just took the top three most likely scenarios and forecast them all. Naturally they didn't accept that either -- but still haven't offered their version of these forecasts. Just meaningless bluster.
 
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Out of context with what?

With the rest of the sentence obviously.

As for disgust, let's leave that as your own view. I wouldn't put the ramblings of one extreme member, as language that speaks for the whole leave camp.

P.S. I wouldn't agree with further enlargement including Turkey, but that is far from disgust, or a reason to vote leave.
 
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