Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

[mjt]

How is that relevant? We elect the lower house and most of the Lords are appointed by those we have elected. We will be a Sovereign country if we leave the EU system.

Are you really saying you prefer to be ruled by people in Brussels? Because that's what a vote to remain means.

Do you know how laws are made in the EU? They're voted upon by MEPs, for whom we vote! (The UK has 73)...

The UK isn't RULED BY BRUSSELS ZOMG11111 anyway. Calm down, dear.

 

[bam0]

It beggars belief that so many people on this poll are apparently voting to be ruled by a largely unelected group of people in Brussels over whom we have virtually no control.

They aren't largely unelected, they might not be all directly elected by the UK (why would we vote on the heads of state for other countries), but the Council and Parliament are all elected and both have oversight of the Commission.

We need to take back our Sovereignty. Do you think The USA would vote to be governerned by a small group of people in Bolivia (or somewhere)? No. They fought the War of Independence to gain their freedom.

The USA is already a federation of states, California alone if it was separate from the US would be the worlds 5th largest economy, and they are run by the US federal government. Stop thinking of the rest of Europe as others.

Sadly the people voting 'Remain' seem to hold freedom/sovereignty cheap. Some might call them traitors.

Then "Some" might be idiots.

 

[Errol]

Do you know how laws are made in the EU? They're voted upon by MEPs, for whom we vote! (The UK has 73)...

The UK isn't RULED BY BRUSSELS ZOMG11111 anyway. Calm down, dear.

We are not Sovereign. Check out the European Commission and ECJ (European Court of Justice).

 

[Six6siX]

Conversely, some argue that 'sovereignty' in the sense that many people that support the exit position see it, is an outdated concept that has no place in the modern world.

 

[scorza]

Do you know how laws are made in the EU? They're voted upon by MEPs, for whom we vote! (The UK has 73)

That's one MEP for every 840,000 UK inhabitants. How come Luxembourg gets 1 MEP for every 77,000 of its inhabitants? Fair and representative?

Conversely, some argue that 'sovereignty' in the sense that many people that support the exit position see it, is an outdated concept that has no place in the modern world.

I agree that this is fundamentally what this referendum is about. I disagree that 'sovereignty' is outdated and has no place in the modern world, I'm British and want to see the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland continue and flourish as an independent sovereign state long after I'm dead. That's why I'm voting Leave.

 

[Errol]

The USA is already a federation of states, California alone if it was separate from the US would be the worlds 5th largest economy, and they are run by the US federal government. Stop thinking of the rest of Europe as others.

Completely specious argument. All the States in America are within the boundaries of the same country (which fought a war of independence to gain Sovereignty). They have a shared history, culture and values (something which is completely lacking in Europe). The example is flawed.

What we are talking about is a group of people from outside the country, with no links to Britain at all, effectively governing the Uk.

It would be akin to the USA voting to be governed by a grouping of American nations, with the HQ in Brazil. Or something similar. Do you think the USA would vote for that - to cede their Sovereignty?

 

[Errol]

Conversely, some argue that 'sovereignty' in the sense that many people that support the exit position see it, is an outdated concept that has no place in the modern world.

Idiots, presumably.

Tell that to America, Russia, China et al.

Wars will be fought in the future and are being fought now over sovereignty. It is the single most important issue. The only one that really matters.

 

[mjt]

That's one MEP for every 840,000 UK inhabitants. How come Luxembourg gets 1 MEP for every 77,000 of its inhabitants? Fair and representative?

I had no idea the UK had suddenly changed to a proportional representation voting system!
Because otherwise why would that point mean anything?

 

[Rilot]

Ahha, found them.

This:

Reminded me of this (from Children of Men):

 

[gobbo]

It beggars belief that so many people on this poll are apparently voting to be ruled by a largely unelected group of people in Brussels over whom we have virtually no control.

Replace Brussels with House of Lords and you've got the UK

Quite how people can complain about a lack of democracy in a country with a Monarchy, an unelected upper house, and the British civil service is beyond me!

 

[mjt]

Replace Brussels with House of Lords and you've got the UK

Quite how people can complain about a lack of democracy in a country with a Monarchy, an unelected upper house, and the British civil service is beyond me!

But, but, but, BRUSSELS ZOMGGGGGG

Check out the European Commission.

I have, thanks. It's a very nice building! I walk past it on my way to the Pub Quiz.

 

[gobbo]

Ahha, found them.

It really bugs me that Leave use Churchills face in anything when he said:

"We must build a kind of United States of Europe. In this way only will hundreds of millions of toilers be able to regain the simple joys and hopes which make life worth living."

 

[gobbo]

But, but, but, BRUSSELS ZOMGGGGGG

Also to point out that we don't even vote for our Prime Minister (how un democratic is that!)

 

[mjt]

Also to point out that we don't even vote for our Prime Minister (how un democratic is that!)

Didn't you hear? The UK now has a proportional representation voting system!
And on the ballot papers, you vote for your next Prime Minister, not your local MP.

 

[Ace Modder]

As a "dirty foreign immigrant" (Irish) I'm voting stay so I can steal all your benefits until I retire on a nice state pension in a council house.

Oh wait, no I actually contribute 30% of my income to the country in taxes. Just like every other "dirty foreign immigrant" I know. Ignore immigration figures that don't differentiate between skilled and unskilled workers or employable/unemployable.

If an immigrant gets a job in the UK they will be a net benefit to the country, if they get a decent paying job like I and all the immigrants I know then even better.

Sure, crack down on immigrants arriving that just want to live on benefits for the rest of their lives but how many of them are there? Certainly fewer than the fear mongers care to say.

What about the extra people arriving in the UK causing a housing shortage, which causes rental pricing to increase massively, supply is well below demand now, so that is a drain on the pockets for many renters, who have to accept renting costs are sky-rcoketing. It's not just about the benefits system, it is far greater.

 

[gobbo]

What about the extra people arriving in the UK causing a housing shortage, which causes rental pricing to increase massively, supply is well below demand now, so that is a drain on the pockets for many renters, who have to accept renting costs are sky-rcoketing. It's not just about the benefits system, it is far greater.

It's really simple, build more.

Build more houses, schools, hospitals, GP surgeries

 

[Trifid]

Replace Brussels with House of Lords and you've got the UK

Quite how people can complain about a lack of democracy in a country with a Monarchy, an unelected upper house, and the British civil service is beyond me!

The EU and the UK are opposites. In the EU, the unelected propose and draft laws and the elected get a quick fire yes/no on all of them one after the other. In the UK the elected get to draft, review and propose laws and the unelected get to deliberate over and send it back to the elected if they don't like parts of them.

I had no idea the UK had suddenly changed to a proportional representation voting system!
Because otherwise why would that point mean anything?

For all the faults of FPTP, at least it allows the public to sack MPs they don't like and suppress extreme parties. Good luck sacking a individual MEP that has popular party support. See Ed Balls.

 

[StriderX]

It really bugs me that Leave use Churchills face in anything when he said:

"We must build a kind of United States of Europe. In this way only will hundreds of millions of toilers be able to regain the simple joys and hopes which make life worth living."

He said that in the hopes the UK would not just be an arms-length interloper, the EU is quite well under the control of the French civil servants and German economy, we can only irritate.

 

[mjt]

It's really simple, build more.

Build more houses, schools, hospitals, GP surgeries

Impossible. Don't you know that we send £350bn to the EU every week?
BRUSSELS ZOMGGG

 

[gobbo]

Didn't you hear? The UK now has a proportional representation voting system!
And on the ballot papers, you vote for your next Prime Minister, not your local MP.

Must have missed that press release

Though you could argue a vote for Brexit is a vote for Boris as PM so it is perhaps a little more democratic than usual!