Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

[Freakbro]

I understand and respect that.

The issue is with the EU there are a lot of knowns:
- we continue to pay over the odds to a club

Thats opinion not fact, lets look at the facts

Mostly because of the rebate, the UK pays the least of all member countries as a share of Gross National Income—a standard measure of the overall prosperity of an economy that is a close relative of the better known GDP measure.

The EU budget is around 1% of EU GNI.

This is the starting point for calculating what each member country should contribute to the budget—most end up paying around 1% of their GNI. The UK paid 0.65%.

So, no we don't pay 'over the odds' in fact we get a good deal for our membership when you take into account the boost our economy gets

- we remain and are pulled in closer

Well, that is the aim, so a valid reason for voting against if you want to be independent

- the EU continues to demand and obligate ever bigger subscription payments

Since the payments are %'s then yes as the economy fluctuates so does the fee. But the rate isn't changing.

- the EU will continue to expand (only idiots will say it wont continue)
- finances of all EU nations will continue to have forced monopolization by central bank cartels
- bureaucracy will continue
- nations will be mandated to provide XXXX/XX,XXX troops toward the Euro Army
- fiscal oppression will continue

Ignoring the pejorative language of 'cartel' 'oppression' then yes, the point of the EU is about integration, no shock there.

And what does 'bureaucracy will continue' mean how is any form of government, national, international, European not be bureaucratic

Lets look at the facts of the EU:
It bullies nations, threatens them, overrules their people, imposes fiscal tyranny on millions and tells all states what to do.... And remain are ok with this?

I still have yet to hear an argument given that cannot be explained by the out camp. Even when remain gets given an answer it ignores what has just been asked/stated.

But they aren't 'facts' but highly pejorative hyperbole to describe your subjective slant on the matter, and if that's how you see things, no wonder you're so wound up!

 

[Crpwned]

We've been printing money since 2009 under QE and inflation is at incredibly low levels in the UK.

Exactly, we're already under a period of QE, which is a fine balancing act so it doesn't push inflation up sharply, that I'm sure has been taken into account and will run until around February next year I believe?
Because of this you (not you specifically) can't just run around shouting 'PRINT MORE MONIES' to back up your statements as the amount of QE going on at the minute will have factored in the precise amount it needs to pump in already surely?

 

[RaohNS]

.
We've been printing money since 2009 under QE and inflation is at incredibly low levels in the UK.

Correct answer buy don't let the remain camp hear it as their shrinking of the economy argument is now debunked

 

[Roar87]

Don't worry it won't come to that, Cameron will not take us out of the EU whatever the result.

Haha how do you work that out? I'm fairly sure he'll respect the result of a referendum he called unless he wants rioting on the streets

 

[Six6siX]

Correct answer buy don't let the remain camp hear it as their shrinking of the economy argument is now debunked

You're very selective about the posts you reply to aren't you?

 

[RaohNS]

No one in this country, except for a tiny number of people in his Witney constituency got to vote for David Cameron, but he's still PM. The same is true for all cabinet positions. They are all appointed. Gorden Brown was never elected as PM, yet the Labour party appointed him as their leader, and thus MP. The whole of the civil service is also by appointment. Is this also undemocratic?
.

Party elect him then the people elect him... They have a choice who they vote. The EU removes nation states voice (not just ours) or at the very least has the ability to

 

[RaohNS]

You're very selective about the posts you reply to aren't you?

Forgive me S6S I'm up against about 10 posters here. What did I miss?

 

[Freakbro]

What has the ECB done? What has the UK done? What has the US done and a lot of European economies? That's right produced more money by printing it. And for the record its not just the left that do it.

Oh I know, I'm more into economics than politics tbh, I'm just making a satirical point about the overwhelming crtiscism Labour still get on here about their handling of the economy and running a high deficit etc and money doesn't grow on trees saying.

So to see you use the same reasoning as a solution to Brexit makes me chuckle.

Tell me, if it's that easy to solve, why have we just been voting in Governments on an austerity mandate? Why didn't we just print more money than we did and all be rich again

 

[John40]

Haha how do you work that out? I'm fairly sure he'll respect the result of a referendum he called unless he wants rioting on the streets

As I've said before it might take until the second referendum but he won't take us out.
Rioting on the streets ? by who ?

 

[MookJong]

I think if we leave a large chunk of the population will stay politically active and scrutinise everything that starts to happen especially with trade deals etc. I am leaning towards leave but as others have said leave will not be a Utopia. We will pay for it one way or another but I think it will engage the populous and we will be able to have the difficult debates that seem to be muted by the EU.

There could be some real heroes and villains that come out of it. Politically it will be a far more interesting time for the country but probably a nightmare for Westminster.

 

[Mr Jack]

So, if it's an "Out" vote Parliament will over rule it, is what they're basically saying.

No, that's not what they're saying. Don't forget that many within the Leave camp have repeatedly claimed that we will re-enter the single market, Daniel Hannan has said that "no-one" has suggested that we would leave. A leave vote binds parliament to leave the European Union; it does not bind parliament not to form a new arrangement with the EU.

 

[dannyjo22]

We've been printing money since 2009 under QE and inflation is at incredibly low levels in the UK.

I was listening to some economists a few months back on the bbc giving evidence that PPI claims were more successful for the economy than QE. The negative effects from QE where somewhat nulled they said by the vast amounts of PPI money poured back into the economy on holidays, cars and home improvements. Sadly I wasn't one of them

 

[Freakbro]

Correct answer buy don't let the remain camp hear it as their shrinking of the economy argument is now debunked

Err, hasn't our economy just contracted over the last 8 years (since the 2008 crash) even with the amount of QE that has gone on?

So no, I think this is where your confusion lays, just because you respond to something with an opinionated view, not a fact, it doesn't leave everything 'debunked'

 

[Six6siX]

Forgive me S6S I'm up against about 10 posters here. What did I miss?

Not any post in particular really - I'm just making an observation that you are quite quick to belittle or dismiss a lot of people in favour of Remain for not responding to bait but a fair few posts that have been quite well constructed by a number of people in rebuttal to your 'facts and figures' have gone ignored.

 

[John40]

No, that's not what they're saying. Don't forget that many within the Leave camp have repeatedly claimed that we will re-enter the single market, Daniel Hannan has said that "no-one" has suggested that we would leave. A leave vote binds parliament to leave the European Union; it does not bind parliament not to form a new arrangement with the EU.

A leave vote absolutely doesn't bind parliament to leave the EU - you're wrong.

 

[RaohNS]

Thats opinion not fact, lets look at the facts

So, no we don't pay 'over the odds' in fact we get a good deal for our membership when you take into account the boost our economy gets

Well, that is the aim, so a valid reason for voting against if you want to be independent

Since the payments are %'s then yes as the economy fluctuates so does the fee. But the rate isn't changing.

Ignoring the pejorative language of 'cartel' 'oppression' then yes, the point of the EU is about integration, no shock there.

And what does 'bureaucracy will continue' mean how is any form of government, national, international, European not be bureaucratic

But they aren't 'facts' but highly pejorative hyperbole to describe your subjective slant on the matter, and if that's how you see things, no wonder you're so wound up!

Remind me again Fb of the yearly EU budget? €145bn... 1% we contribute... Really?

You think we get a good deal... I think we don't for repeatedly mentioning the same old reasons ad infinitum.

So you don't want to be independent? Make independent decisions on things that affect UK people? Ok that's clear to me.

Is the EU through its arm of the ECB impoverishing Greek people? Is it forcing countries to pay loans on bad loans that it itself made and then not paying the amount to the governments but keeping 80%+ itself and still charging on the whole amount? The ECB is doing something outlawed to individuals and its a cartel.. A racket. Truth.

Sorry... Overly bureaucratic.

So everything there is a lie I have just said?

Lets look at the facts of the EU:
It bullies nations (1), threatens them (2), overrules their people (3) imposes fiscal tyranny on millions and tells all states what to do (4)... And remain are ok with this?

1) telling Poland what they can and cannot do. Remember Poland elected their govt... Just because they are being a..wipes about it doesn't give them authority. That comes from the governed (there are plenty of others as have been mentioned in this thread
2) tells nations to accept refugees to the figure we decree or €250,000 per one. If the UK leaves we will do this, that, the other... Threat threat threat
3) Ireland, Ireland, Greece, removes elected officials does not allow or recognize democracy from the people and instead is the self appointed power giving itself suzerainty over [Cameron mode] 500million people[/Cameron mode]
4) self explanatory plus a combination of the above

Surely nobody can be that obtuse or have such short a memory

 

[scorza]

I was listening to some economists a few months back on the bbc giving evidence that PPI claims were more successful for the economy than QE. The negative effects from QE where somewhat nulled they said by the vast amounts of PPI money poured back into the economy on holidays, cars and home improvements. Sadly I wasn't one of them

I heard the same a few years ago - that PPI was acting as a massive stimulus to the economy. Just proves what I've always thought; that re-distributing wealth from the rich to the poor is beneficial to a nation's economy. The effectiveness of QE at doing what was intended; boosting GDP is still in question, however it certainly can't be said that it has led to massive inflation.

 

[RaohNS]

Err, hasn't our economy just contracted over the last 8 years (since the 2008 crash) even with the amount of QE that has gone on?

So no, I think this is where your confusion lays, just because you respond to something with an opinionated view, not a fact, it doesn't leave everything 'debunked'

Economy doesn't mean nothing. Its trade that matters. We have customers so business will want to be done. Lets leave the economy now as I'm certainly not giving ground and likely neither will ihre

 

[RaohNS]

Not any post in particular really - I'm just making an observation that you are quite quick to belittle or dismiss a lot of people in favour of Remain for not responding to bait but a fair few posts that have been quite well constructed by a number of people in rebuttal to your 'facts and figures' have gone ignored.

Where??? There has been about 2 in the last thread, one was explained and the other someone else explained so I +1 and hijacked answer.

Its not baiting, its constructive argument. Sometimes figures do actually dismiss the reality you know

 

[Freakbro]

I heard the same a few years ago - that PPI was acting as a massive stimulus to the economy. Just proves what I've always thought; that re-distributing wealth from the rich to the poor is beneficial to a nation's economy. The effectiveness of QE at doing what was intended; boosting GDP is still in question, however it certainly can't be said that it has led to massive inflation.

It hasn't, but to be fair general economic theory does expect QE to put up inflation, hence there has been some head scratching about this one

I guess it's because there are other counter balancing pressures going on, like the artificially low interest rates.

But I agree, the best thing they could have done with all that QE was give it to us directly, not the banks. That would have seen a boost to the economy.