A rather silly way of looking it, which implies you have more say in the UK. Guess what you don't.
You get to vote for one MP in the uk, out of how many hundreads (over 600 isn't it?),
EU and uk democracy is very similar indeed, unlike you make out
Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)
- Thread starter Rilot
- Start date
- Status
A rather silly way of looking it, which implies you have more say in the UK. Guess what you don't.
You get to vote for one MP in the uk, out of how many hundreads (over 600 isn't it?),
EU and uk democracy is very similar indeed, unlike you make out
Not the "economy" argument again... *sighs*... We just print more money.
Dress it up any way you like. We benefit from half of that amount, that's common knowledge and not in any way a point.
3% hit on economy... So the big business effectively try financial strangulation is what that GDP argument is about. How much impact will our leaving have in EU? Because the remain camp seem to say the European economies are going to go up by 965%
. Our economy is intertwined with ECB policy and forecasting... Its called globalization... The same way Chinese slumps in economy affect world economies. This was done to death in the last thread.
Note: Printing more money does not make inflation rise... I will say again... Printing money does not make inflation rise... Printing money does not make inflation rise
Very similar it really isn't. Citizens in Malta have 10 times more MEP representation than a citizen in UK for instance.
Whilst our system isn't ideal the variation in numbers between constituencies is a far cry from the variance in apportionment for the EU parliament.
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Feb 2004
- Posts
- 14,312
- Location
- Peoples Republic of Histonia, Cambridge
So it's undemocratic because the UK can be outvoted or vetoed? What you've described is democracy.
The European parliament is elected. The other governing bodies are comprised of members who are appointed by the respective national governments on their peoples behalf. This includes Mr Juncker.
To describe this as undemocratic is ridiculous. We elect our government to represent our interests.
Last edited:
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 17 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 36,746
- Location
- Southampton, UK
Others may need to correct me, but I was under the assumption that member states would need to ratify treaty change, not the European Parliament and therefore it would be the UK Gov making the decision, not UKIP MEPs.
Soldato
- Joined
- 20 Jul 2004
- Posts
- 3,636
- Location
- Dublin, Ireland
Your username to me makes any statement you make null and void lol
If it's so democratic, can you name the five presidents of the EU (without wikipedia'ing it - so be honest). Democracy isn't just about voting, there are other issues to consider such transparency and accountability. True democracy certainly doesn't mean the tyranny of the majority - which Mr Juncker seems to think it does.
What about the MEPs per capita figure, is that fair and Democratic?
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 17 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 36,746
- Location
- Southampton, UK
That's a little unfair, I don't think I could name the last 5 prime ministers of the UK....
I can do 4 but not before John Major.
Soldato
- Joined
- 13 May 2003
- Posts
- 8,989
I would say the way the EU has treated Austria vis a vis Jorg haider's Freedom Party victory. The way it organised the removal of Papendreou (sp?) and replaced him and his cabinet with life senators appointed by a biddable President in greece. And the replacement of Berlisconi's (sp?) Government replaced by life senators appointed by the President. Then the threat to Poland for electing the wrong Government.
The EU routinely places itself above the soveriegn power of the electorate and applies anti-democratic pressure on member countries to ensure biddable officials replace elected ones.
The EU routinely places itself above the soveriegn power of the electorate and applies anti-democratic pressure on member countries to ensure biddable officials replace elected ones.
I'm sure that leaving the EU would cost money in the short term but I don't understand why much of what we are part of as a member of the EU cannot form the basis of our own proposals. I don't see quite how you can suggest that it is time consuming and expensive to do these things ourselves when we already have to do many of these things before we decide how we are going to position ourselves on the issues when it comes to the EU.
That is one of the greatest criticisms of the EU as well isn't it. That its vastly wasteful and takes a huge amount of time to come to a decision on most issues.
I'm still on the fence about staying in but I think that the idea that we are like a teenager leaving home who doesn't realise how much their parents do for them is as silly as the idea that we will save billions a year.
That is one of the greatest criticisms of the EU as well isn't it. That its vastly wasteful and takes a huge amount of time to come to a decision on most issues.
I'm still on the fence about staying in but I think that the idea that we are like a teenager leaving home who doesn't realise how much their parents do for them is as silly as the idea that we will save billions a year.
Associate
- Joined
- 17 Mar 2009
- Posts
- 443
Attended my local EU debate with around 250 people in attendance on Friday, definitely more applause for voting to leave the EU and almost all questions asked by the audience were targeted at the remain guy.
I'm not talking about the last 5 Presidents of the EU - I'm talking about the current 5 Presidents of the EU - the heads of the five governing EU institutions. I don't know the answer to this either, I just heard Gove talking about them on Friday.
President of the European Commission is Jean-Claude Juncker
President of the European Council is Donald Tusk
Dunno what the other three institutions are, would imaging the European Court of Justice is one, but don't know who the President of that is. European Parliament might be another (Martin Schultz?). Isn't there a rotating Presidency in the European Council as well? No idea who that is at the moment but vaguely recall one of the Baltic nations would be taking over that Presidency soon. Then again, I could be completely wrong.
I wonder how many members of our current Cabinet people could name, not many I would guess.
Your average Jo doesn't give a toss about politics/politicians so I'm not sure how using the metric of naming 5 EU presidents points to the level of democracy within the EU
This sounds rather more like a condemnation of the UK media than it does of the EU. The EU publishes a great deal of information on the decisions it makes, which is accessible through their transparency portal. It's easy to find out what the EU is doing and easy to find out what your MEPs are doing; but it just isn't reported by the media. And, of course, the same criticism is true of local democracy in this country: I can name my MP but I can't name the councillors that represent me.
Last edited:
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 17 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 36,746
- Location
- Southampton, UK
Ok, but I doubt a majority of people could name everyone in the current uk cabinet.
Oh right, so if I go France or any other EU member state, I should be able to find someone who can explain this to me. It's just the UK media's fault that no-one understands the EU, and in no-way because it's a bureaucrat's paradise.
- Status