Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 794 45.1%

  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 965 54.9%
  • Total voters
    1,759
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Burnsy2023 said:
And the UK would have significant issues if we had the same agreement as Canada does due to the fact services weren't included in the deal. It also took best part of a decade to negotiate.
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Services aren't part of our current deal either, there isn't a single market for services.
 
bam0 said:
You sure about that?

http://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/index_en.htm

"The Single Market refers to the EU as one territory without any internal borders or other regulatory obstacles to the free movement of goods and services."
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There is no single market for services. What that statement means is that if you are a service provider in member state A, you can provide a service in member state B - but it's under member state B's rules rather than EU rules. E.g. if you're a French plumber, you're free to provide plumbing services in the UK but you must conform to UK regulations and certifications e.g. GasSafe.

Obviously there are massive issues with a single market for services - what about legal services, how can you get to the situation where a Romanian law firm based in Bucharest with Romanian qualified lawyers providing advice on English & Welsh law? Not easily I would suggest. For others such as management consultancy it's a lot simpler.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Before we continue, perhaps it would be worth you understanding and defining your interpretation of a single market, because the EU fundamentally and explicitly disagrees here.

http://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/services/index_en.htm
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http://openeuropeblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/we-cant-complete-eu-single-market-in.html

The inquiry concluded that there is no ‘single market in services’ in any meaningful sense of the term. This is due in part to the sheer diversity of service sectors in the EU, and because these sectors are regulated by a complex mix of national and EU regulation.
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scorza said:
Obviously there are massive issues with a single market for services - what about legal services, how can you get to the situation where a Romanian law firm based in Bucharest with Romanian qualified lawyers providing advice on English & Welsh law? Not easily I would suggest. For others such as management consultancy it's a lot simpler.
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They got that one covered

Professional Qualifications Directive
Sometimes EU countries may make the access to a particular profession conditional upon the possession of a professional qualification traditionally issued within their territory. This represents an obstacle to the core principles of the single market for services as those qualified to practise the same profession in another EU country cannot do so. In response, the EU established rules to facilitate the mutual recognition of professional qualifications between EU countries. This was mainly done through the Professional Qualifications Directive but there are also specific directives for lawyers dealing with establishment in another EU country and the cross-border provision of services.
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You might even get the impression they have thought of the specific difficulties (which of course there are for the reasons you posted) and addressed them....
 
bam0 said:
You sure about that?

http://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/index_en.htm

"The Single Market refers to the EU as one territory without any internal borders or other regulatory obstacles to the free movement of goods and services."
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Services absolutely are part of the theory of the EU deal, and the major plank in that, topped up by ECJ rulings, is the 2006 Services Directive.

The problem, if you see it as a problem, is that even that 2006 directive is a long way from fully implemented, and enforced, and it didn't even cover everything.

So the intent and objective is that the single market should fully cover both goods and services but while implementation is quite advanced on goods it is much less so on services. The importance is that the UK has a significantly more service-oriented than other major EU economies.

Whether we want it fully implemented, especially in financial services, is, of course, a different matter. Personally, I'm inclined to the view of 'be careful what you wish for, lest you get it'.
 
George Hincapie said:
And why do you think that can't be the case if we leave?
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Protectionism, they'll look after their own (like they currently do) and right now we're in the club. People point at the trade deficit, £24bn (how much more the UK imports from the EU than exports to it) as a position of strength, but it's likely a large amount of those imports are non fungible, either for price or time reasons. Conversely if our exports attracted tariffs that's a hit to the profitability of our companies, or simply the inability to compete with EU companies.
 
In a BBC interview, the WTO's director general, Roberto Azevedo, said Britain would not have the same negotiating leverage as the EU.
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I find it amazing how people think that Britain will have the same bargaining weight as the EU or even has the weight to strong arm the EU when it comes to the negotiations. I cant decide whether its delusions of grandeur or what.

I can totally get optimism when talking about setting up alternative trade deals, despite my scepticism but thinking we have as much negotiating leverage as the EU is silly.
 
George Hincapie said:
And why do you think that can't be the case if we leave?
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Why would they want to incentivise members leaving? If they have 20 odd countries committing funds to the EU, why would they allow the same benefits to a country who doesn't pay their way? The UK isn't the only country with nationalist parties suggesting to leave the EU, the security of the EU relies on stability of membership.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Why would they want to incentivise members leaving? If they have 20 odd countries committing funds to the EU, why would they allow the same benefits to a country who doesn't pay their way? The UK isn't the only country with nationalist parties suggesting to leave the EU, the security of the EU relies on stability of membership.
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and why would they give us better deals than other countries have got.
 
Zethor said:
So much for 'using WTO rules' to carry on as normal after Brexit. :)

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36470809
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Just love this XD

KCNA UK Branch said:
Britain could have to impose £9bn worth of additional tariffs on imports, raising the cost of living.

Exporters could face an extra £5bn of tariffs on their sales abroad
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How much is our membership fee again? I love the use of the word "could" too.

The UK could tell the WTO they need to apply their rules fairly and consistently. Could be wrong and fine to be corrected but isn't the WTO's highest tariff just 2.5%? Equally that could face a levy from the UK too thus negating the matter?

Remember also that the WTO has to apply its rules equally or it leaves itself open to legal action by member states (a very slow legal process too).
 
Please tell me you dont think subtracting the the cost of tariffs from the membership fee and finding a positive number means that we would gain economically overall.
 
Avenged7Fold said:
Jesus, people turning into those herp derp, foaming at the mouth american types which shout about democracy all the time.

People are starting to value letting everyone have a say over the result that the say gives you.
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I will just wipe my mouth while I try and work out what the 2nd sentence means. :rolleyes:
 
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