Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)

[datalol-jack]

European citizenship takes 5 years.
Belgium: requires 5 years of residence, dual citizenship is allowed
Bulgaria: 5 years of residence, dual citizenship is NOT allowed
Germany: 8 years of residence, can be reduced to 7 or even 6 with integration and language courses.

The EU will give away EU passports this year.

For a lark, list the requirements those countries set out in law to obtain a passport for legal refugees/other long-term residents, after their uninterrupted residence period qualifies them to apply for it [not a done deal at this stage either, a passport/citizenship can be declined for a number of reasons; if you fail on any of the qualifying criteria, your history in the country or your documentary evidence doesn't add up, for example]. Just handing them out, eh? Re bold text see my reply to scorza below. Shorter version: It would need a new EU treaty or at least a major treaty change.

 

[b0redj0rd]

No, your stance is probably related to your lack of critical thinking skills.




I've highlighted one of the most inane news article conclusions I've read in a long time (and I read, among other things, Fox News daily). This claim doesn't even warrant a counterargument, it's sheer stupidity but it is useful. It's a representative quality sample of the rest of the article.

Yet, plenty of people seem to be concerned TTIP paves the way for NHS privatization. UNITE, various lawyers .. Doctors, Nurses, opposition parties ...

I'm certain you know best though.

 

[Zethor]

Yet, plenty of people seem to be concerned TTIP paves the way for NHS privatization. UNITE, various lawyers .. Doctors, Nurses, opposition parties ...

I'm certain you know best though.

Yes I do know because, unlike you, I use my eyes and my brain. The amateurish article was demolished in one of its 7 comments.

http://www.nhsconfed.org/regions-an...ransatlantic-trade-and-investment-partnership

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2015/january/tradoc_152999.2 Services.pdf


The EU doesn't take any commitments for publicly funded health, education

Data protection standards won't be part of TTIP negotiations. TTIP will make sure that the EU’s data protection laws prevail over any commitments.

 

[sports_brah]

I had a think about this today.

I'd vote out, but more almost as a protest. I think that people want (and need) a measure of control in their lives. For a long time now it has felt like people have no particular say in a lot of issues.

People lose their jobs to outsourcing/cheaper labour and have to put up with people citing economic theory about how its marginal at best.

People are concerned about the future of their country (and their families and those to come) and yet have to put up with a foreign leader inviting them in.

People want a clearly laid out framework of judicial law and control, and yet see faceless bureaucrats trying to impossibly set out laws to govern states which are radically different.


I think a lot of the negativity on both sides could be avoided by fairer representation, and also a bit more prudence. Letting in 100'000's/millions of people with radically different cultures into your continent is not prudence, wise or fair.

Wanting an isolated nation living the glory days of a frankly harsh empire is also not prudent wise or fair.


I still think the change will come through voting though, hence why I would vote no.

 

[scorza]

Remember how the EU demanded more money from the UK taxpayer because our drugs and prostitution industry was booming? Remember how George Osborne claimed he'd done a deal to get some money back and then it turned out that the money we were getting back was the rebate that we'd get back anyway. They're laughing at us, the only thing I don't know is why Cameron and the other ministers put up with it - feathering their own nest no doubt.

 

[scorza]

http://www.expatica.com/de/visas-and-permits/A-guide-to-German-citizenship-and-permanent-visas_108795.html

Is it a matter of fact or more strong, unsubstantiated opinion? You need the full German citizenship for the related EU citizenship rights and privileges. To get that, and a right to reside permanently elsewhere in the EU, you need to be an EC resident at the very least; this is not as straightforward as some people think, and may take the best part of a decade on average.

Here's a list of requirements for the EC residency in Germany.



So, after you've spent five to eight years in the country, have acquired a livelihood and the requisite language skills, and are settled there -- why move to 'ol blighty?

Legal refugees have no automatic right to free movement or other benefits of a European citizenship. They can only reside in the country where they were granted asylum. Full stop.

There's a further set of conditions on free movement also: if you want to remain for more than 3 months in another member state, you need to be able to demonstrate you can support yourself and have health insurance coverage. A “habitual residence test” is a common way to establish that, see Belgium for example. We have the power to use it, but to my knowledge never have. Whose fault is that, the EU again? It's in the treaties, Theresa May can ram a bill through parliament now, if she wanted to. But instead we point fingers, and we are planning cuts for the relevant departments instead, in or out. Comedy!

Germany is talking about fast-tracking them to aid cultural enrichment.

 

[datalol-jack]

Yet, plenty of people seem to be concerned TTIP paves the way for NHS privatization. UNITE, various lawyers .. Doctors, Nurses, opposition parties ...

I'm certain you know best though.

What will stop a Tory majority government from privatizing the NHS in independent Britain, signing up to TTIP-lite and letting investors take care of the details? It wasn't in their manifesto, nor, in my opinion, will it be. But for the sake of hypotheticals ala Unite, do consider the scenario.

Germany is talking about fast-tracking them to aid cultural enrichment.

Okay. Is it EU policy? Have the Germans got this past the Commission or the EUP? Has anything been signed? Has the Bundestag ratified such a stance of the German government?

 

[Skunkworks]

I'm out because:

• The EU is crumbling.
• Britain is enough of an economic power to go it alone and maybe encourage others to come to.
• We're a desirable place to live and work, so we should be cherry picking the brightest and best from around the world, not just flinging the doors open and hope for the best.

 

[scorza]

What will stop a Tory majority government from privatizing the NHS in independent Britain, signing up to TTIP-lite and letting investors take care of the details? It wasn't in their manifesto, nor, in my opinion, will it be. But for the sake of hypotheticals ala Unite, do consider the scenario.



Okay. Is it EU policy? Have the Germans got this past the Commission or the EUP? Has anything been signed? Has the Bundestag ratified such a stance of the German government?

I know we'll disagree about this, but the EU has form for moving very swiftly when Germany wants change - considerably less so when the UK wants it.

 

[datalol-jack]

Yes I do know because, unlike you, I use my eyes and my brain. The amateurish article was demolished in one of its 7 comments.

http://www.nhsconfed.org/regions-an...ransatlantic-trade-and-investment-partnership

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2015/january/tradoc_152999.2 Services.pdf


The EU doesn't take any commitments for publicly funded health, education

Data protection standards won't be part of TTIP negotiations. TTIP will make sure that the EU’s data protection laws prevail over any commitments.

Regarding privacy, investigative powers and digital security; didn't Europe go against the grain of American legal wisdom on the topic. As in -- they would have none of it? Why would they ratify similar gaping privacy issues contradictory to EU-wide data protection laws now, if anything like that is slipped in TTIP? I don't get the tinfoil alarm here.

I know we'll disagree about this, but the EU has form for moving very swiftly when Germany wants change - considerably less so when the UK wants it.

Why wouldn't we, Ireland, Nordic states, eastern-EU and France veto in this, at the moment purely hypothetical, event? I've checked. But also cannot see how this would be done without needing a new treaty or a major treaty change. In both cases, it would need to go back to national parliaments/referendums as per usual treaty creation/modification process.

 

[rawuk]

Donald Trump for America!
We leave the EU and ally with Russia and Assad!
Build a wall!

The titans are coming!

 

[Freakbro]

"One of the big questions arising from today’s immigration statistics is how there can be 260,000 immigrants from the European Union (EU) over the past year yet around 650,000 National Insurance Numbers (NINos) handed to EU citizens"

Get out of that one Cameron.

Brietbart?

Migration Statistics Quarterly Report - Office for National Statistics

Immigration to the UK and emigration from the UK, including net migration (the difference between immigration and emigration).

www.ons.gov.uk

We've had reading comprehension problems in the past, haven't we, deuse-y boy?

From your source, which explains what's included in your 'shock' contradictory figure:


Move along.

Hahaha....owned, because no way on earth was the ONS the source for deuses' information, but it was breitbart

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/02/25/650000-new-national-insurance-numbers-of-eu-migrants/

Which has the link to the ONS report in the first line. So deuse was what, too embarrassed now to admit it was a breitbart article? At least that would be progress on developmental understanding.

But breitbart know no-one actually reading their article is going to have the nous to actually read the article they linked that doesn't support the article at all and as usual deuse only read the headline and first paragraph and bought it all hook line and sinker

 

[Sliver]

Donald Trump for America!
We leave the EU and ally with Russia and Assad!
Build a wall!

The titans are coming!

Don't forget your suicide vest on the way out.

 

[datalol-jack]

Donald Trump for America!
We leave the EU and ally with Russia and Assad!
Build a wall!

The titans are coming!

Don't forget your suicide vest on the way out.

Toupeé, sir, toupeé!

Hahaha....owned, because no way on earth was the ONS the source for deuses' information, but it was breitbart

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/02/25/650000-new-national-insurance-numbers-of-eu-migrants/

Which has the link to the ONS report in the first line. So deuse was what, too embarrassed now to admit it was a breitbart article? At least that would be progress on developmental understanding.

But breitbart know no-one actually reading their article is going to have the nous to actually read the article they linked that doesn't support the article at all and as usual deuse only read the headline and first paragraph and bought it all hook line and sinker

Lol, Breitbart: Politics, conservative news and opinion! Can't promise facts, but get the lot while it's steaming hot!

 

[Sliver]

Deuse needs to spend 5 minutes on the naughty step and reassess his life goals. Procede !

 

[datalol-jack]

Deuse needs to spend 5 minutes on the naughty step and reassess his life goals. Procede !

I'm sure he'll be back with more headlines soon enough... 4 months to go. How often do they publish?

 

[Roar87]

Remember how the EU demanded more money from the UK taxpayer because our drugs and prostitution industry was booming? Remember how George Osborne claimed he'd done a deal to get some money back and then it turned out that the money we were getting back was the rebate that we'd get back anyway. They're laughing at us, the only thing I don't know is why Cameron and the other ministers put up with it - feathering their own nest no doubt.

It's called Globalisation, at the high end of government they're basically bribed to push this agenda. It doesn't even make sense for a leader of a right wing party to want more government, it goes against the ideals of a Conservative party

 

[datalol-jack]

It's called Globalisation, at the high end of government they're basically bribed to push this agenda. It doesn't even make sense for a leader of a right wing party to want more government, it goes against the ideals of a Conservative party

Depends on what sort of conservatism they subscribe to. You can have very socially conservative nanny-states and dictators. The Tories are no less a broad church than Labour in this regard. Both rely heavily on third-party donations, which come with political strings and pressures attached. Influenced? Sure. Bribed? Taking it a bit too far, especially in the UK. Most go by whatever was fashionable in their formative years, wiser heads learn from political experience.

Globalisation is a global*surprise* economic phenomenon as much as anything else, it has positive and negative aspects; [somewhat]controllable and emergent processes in its fabric; it's moral and social implications heavily depend on how it is implemented and managed.

Moreover, it's not a uniform prescription for policy either -- there are many layers to it; hardly something one can push as a concrete agenda. An ideal? Perhaps. Something you could 'bribe' someone to do? The remit would be so vague and voluminous, you would run out of cash!

 

[b0redj0rd]

Yes I do know because, unlike you, I use my eyes and my brain. The amateurish article was demolished in one of its 7 comments.

http://www.nhsconfed.org/regions-an...ransatlantic-trade-and-investment-partnership

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2015/january/tradoc_152999.2 Services.pdf


The EU doesn't take any commitments for publicly funded health, education

Data protection standards won't be part of TTIP negotiations. TTIP will make sure that the EU’s data protection laws prevail over any commitments.

Hmmm. Who to place my trust in. 'Zethor', random PC forum smart*** or Michael Bowsher, QC.

Unite has opened a new front in the battle against a controversial transatlantic trade deal by publishing legal advice which warns of a “real and serious” risk posed to a future government’s stewardship of the NHS.

Britain’s biggest union has seized upon a legal opinion prepared by a senior QC which highlights the risks posed by the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP).

Unite has fought a long-running campaign against the treaty, which is stuck in marathon negotiations. and which was designed to cut regulatory barriers between the US and the EU but which has been dogged by fears it will undermine the public provision of the NHS. Last month Sajid Javid, the Business Secretary, refused to release the legal advice produced for his department, claiming ministers need to be able to receive candid guidance privately.

Today Unite publishes a legal opinion by Michael Bowsher, QC, a former chair of the EU law committee of the Bar, which recommended a “specific exclusion” for the NHS, when TTIP is agreed, or effectively an opt-out for the UK to take any measure regarding the “organisation, the funding and the provision” of a public NHS.

“We consider that the solution to the problems which TTIP poses to the NHS – and which is likely to provide the greatest protection – is for the NHS to be excluded from the agreement, by way of a blanket exception contained within the main text of TTIP”, Bowsher said.

Unite described the opinion as “explosive” and will send the text to all MPs.

Gail Cartmail, Unite assistant general secretary, said: “The legal advice is clear, TTIP is a real and serious risk to the NHS. Unless the UK gets robust protection, the US private health industry can override the will of Parliament on matters relating to our health.”

Last year EU trade commissioner Cecilia Malmström indicated she was willing to rework elements of TTIP to tackle concerns over the potential for US companies to take a much greater role in the NHS.

“David Cameron has the powers to prevent EU bureaucrats from handing rights over our NHS to America,” added Cartmail.

“If David Cameron does not use the power to exempt the NHS, they will not be able to plead ignorance when TTIP is used to attack the NHS.”

The EU Commission has claimed the treaty could increase the size of the EU economy by €120bn (£93.5bn) by 2027.


You can bang on as much as you like as if you are an expert, but until the deal is made public and particular guarantees are made the NHS is at greater risk of privatization by TTIP.

 

[Mr Jack]

Remember how the EU demanded more money from the UK taxpayer because our drugs and prostitution industry was booming?

That's a false characterisation of what happened. We owed the EU money because we brought our GDP calculations into line with other countries and that re-calculation increased our GDP. We, like other countries, pay based on our GDP; it's hardly fair if we use a different system to under-report our GDP is it?

Remember how George Osborne claimed he'd done a deal to get some money back and then it turned out that the money we were getting back was the rebate that we'd get back anyway. They're laughing at us, the only thing I don't know is why Cameron and the other ministers put up with it - feathering their own nest no doubt.

George Osborne's incompetence and duplicity hardly reflects bad faith on the part of the EU.

The re-calculation was based on numbers we supplied and had spent two years calculating. The exact amount that we'd be asked for was precisely predictable from the numbers we handed over. For Cameron and Osborne to act surprised by it reflects either incompetence or duplicity on their behalf.