Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)

[jas72]

It's always been like that Freak. Non-EU migration is higher but it rarely gets a mention by Farage and co.

Why not?

Ask them as they only see EU migrants as the problem.

 

[jas72]

Can someone explain to me why leaving the EU means we leave the EEA?
Because I don't think it does...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area

Because the UK isn't in the EEA it's the EU block that's in the EEA you leave the block and you then have to apply to join or at least re-negotiate your membership.

 

[scorza]

The thing you seem to not realise is the Government want the immigration, so the numbers won't change after the referendum either way

Governments change though, once British sovereignty is transferred to Brussels then it ain't coming back.

What I don't want is a situation where the UK government promises to cut immigration to the tens of thousands, and then doesn't, because EU rules prevent them from doing so. We should be holding our government to account, if they promise to cut net migration to the tens of thousands but fail then they should be hauled over the coals. Once Britain controls its own borders, there is no reason why net migration can't be cut to this level, so if they fail to do so it's because of their own incompetence, not because we've transferred control of our borders to Brussels who don't particular care about the costs associated with uncontrolled migration on British people.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Can someone explain to me why leaving the EU means we leave the EEA?
Because I don't think it does...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area

Freedom of movement, which is a reason why a lot of people want to leave the EU, is actually a requirement of being part of the EEA.

 

[Mr Jack]

We cannot continue the trend of mass immigration without increasing the number of houses being built significantly!

Why don't we, you know, build some more houses then?

 

[deuse]

The costs of not being in a single market are something that can't be ignored though. Border controls come at a very high cost.

The UK was ok when it was called the common market. If the boarder controls are run as they should there is no extra cost.

 

[scorza]

Why don't we, you know, build some more houses then?

We are. Problem is that when you have to build a new city the size of Cardiff every year then it's not easier. Re-imposing border controls is much easier and less costly.

 

[jas72]

Governments change though, once British sovereignty is transferred to Brussels then it ain't coming back.

What I don't want is a situation where the UK government promises to cut immigration to the tens of thousands, and then doesn't, because EU rules prevent them from doing so. We should be holding our government to account, if they promise to cut net migration to the tens of thousands but fail then they should be hauled over the coals. Once Britain controls its own borders, there is no reason why net migration can't be cut to this level, so if they fail to do so it's because of their own incompetence, not because we've transferred control of our borders to Brussels who don't particular care about the costs associated with uncontrolled migration on British people.

Scorza Brussels doesn't want to control the UK.

It's the priniciple of subsidiarity and proportionality one of the treaty articles.

"LEGAL BASIS
Article 5(3) of the Treaty on European Union (TEU) and Protocol (No 2) on the application of the principles of subsidiarity and proportionality.

OBJECTIVES
The principle of subsidiarity and the principle of proportionality govern the exercise of the EU’s competences. In areas in which the European Union does not have exclusive competence, the principle of subsidiarity seeks to protect the capacity of the Member States to take decisions and to take action and authorises intervention by the Union when the objectives of an action cannot be sufficiently achieved by the Member States, but can be better achieved at Union level, ‘by reason of the scale and effects of the proposed action’. The purpose of including a reference to the principle in the European Treaties is also to ensure that powers are exercised as close to the citizen as possible."

 

[Freakbro]

Governments change though, <snip>

But the underlying issue of an ageing population and declining birthrate don't change with a change of Government

Once Britain controls its own borders, there is no reason why net migration can't be cut to this level,

Yes there is, because they are working on the premise we need these levels of immigration to counteract the problem above.

 

[Randomface74]

Because the UK isn't in the EEA it's the EU block that's in the EEA you leave the block and you then have to apply to join or at least re-negotiate your membership.

How sure of that are you?

 

[Mr Jack]

We are. Problem is that when you have to build a new city the size of Cardiff every year then it's not easier.

We're building pathetically few houses and have done for the past two decades; the last few years have been particularly bad. We were building over twice as many houses a year for decades after the World Wars; it's not an impossible task.

Re-imposing border controls is much easier and less costly.

No, it's harder and much more costly. Considering that the Tories don't meet their own immigration targets on Non-EU migration - i.e. that they can control - alone we have to conclude that actually they do want immigration higher than the target.

 

[Tunney]

We are. Problem is that when you have to build a new city the size of Cardiff every year then it's not easier. Re-imposing border controls is much easier and less costly.

Building a new city the size of Cardiff every year would be a great boost to the construction industry. Think of all those jobs it would create.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The UK was ok when it was called the common market. If the boarder controls are run as they should there is no extra cost.

Are boarder controls specific to who can and cannot board a ship?

 

[Randomface74]

Freedom of movement, which is a reason why a lot of people want to leave the EU, is actually a requirement of being part of the EEA.

That's why it's important to know whether leaving the EU means automatically leaving the EEA.

 

[deuse]

Scorza Brussels doesn't want to control the UK.

It's the priniciple of subsidiarity and proportionality one of the treaty articles

So how come loads of our laws are made by them?
I think it's a case of say on thing but do another.

 

[Randomface74]

The text of the EEA agreement is clearly an agreement between "contracting parties" of which the UK is one and the EU is not one.
[pdf] http://www.efta.int/media/documents...t/Main Text of the Agreement/EEAagreement.pdf

 

[scorza]

Scorza Brussels doesn't want to control the UK.

Of course they want to, and at the moment they do. They have control of our borders, setting immigration policy. We know they want an EU Army as well and an EU police force.

But the underlying issue of an ageing population and declining birthrate don't change with a change of Government



Yes there is, because they are working on the premise we need these levels of immigration to counteract the problem above.

My understanding is that the birthrate in the UK is booming at the moment. There's a real problem with primary schools being massively over-subscribed. As a nation we need net migration of about +50,000 people per year - that is the level it has been historically without causing the sort of issues we see at the moment.

I totally reject this circular argument that has every solution to a problem caused by uncontrolled immigration is to have more immigration. Problem: We haven't got enough houses to accommodate all these new migrants. Solution: Get more migrants to build more homes. Problem: There aren't enough school places for our kids. Solution: Get more migrants in to teach our kids. It's completely illogical and unsustainable. We need to retake control of our borders, and get immigration under control - back to around +50k a year.

 

[jimjamuk]

Building a new city the size of Cardiff every year would be a great boost to the construction industry. Think of all those jobs it would create.

Whether its possible or not to build the number of houses the green areas in this country are slowly disappearing - I dont want the country to be building a city the size of Cardiff every year. Seriously this is a beautiful country, we don't need every little bit tarmaced

Clearly if those that could build houses want to they would but evidence suggests this isn't happening in the scale needed to meet the demand.

 

[Freakbro]

My understanding is that the birthrate in the UK is booming at the moment.

Because of the immigrants....

 

[scorza]

Because of the immigrants....

... and also because more women in their 30s are having kids, having postponed motherhood for their careers while in their 20s. Why is why there were lots of scare stories ~10 years ago about the UK's supposed declining birth rate.

It's amazing how your and your ilk are constantly saying how more and more people = better and best, no drawbacks at all. If that were true wouldn't you expect the countries where these people are coming from to be quite concerned about their declining populations?