Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Total voters
    1,204
Status
Not open for further replies.
datalol-jack said:
His chief area of expertise strays far from both migration and NHS funding. And none of his official research backs any of his points, even the four links on his wiki page. Precisely why you shouldn't take his 'expert' opinion on matters he knows little about, and simply states the official party line on. Spouting claptrap by bypassing peer review towards a political end, is still spouting claptrap, be it from an academic or not. Or don't you practice the subtle art of critical thinking?

It's the same thread of reasoning about the NHS that got picked up as rather lacking on evidence in the original debates by the independent fact checkers, especially when it came to the doom-saying about health tourism, as interpreted by UKIP high command, pushing the NHS to the brink. Turned out we don't fund it enough, and those funding decisions had little to do with either health tourism or immigrants. :p

Maybe DM wasn't particularly kind by pulling him up on this article? Possibly he was caught with his pants down out of context? Maybe he just wanted to grab the headlines of questionable PR value? Perhaps he knows something about how much it costs to treat a particular form of cancer; but what does he know regarding health tourism in the NHS at large, including devolved matters? The world will never know, and has moved on.

Until you start doing your homework, all I can say is that here's a chap with plenty of opinions, mostly borrowed, but nothing credible to back them up with. I don't see why I, or anyone else for that matter, should play the role of your personal researcher.
Click to expand...
I would say that is a fair assessment that funding may not be his first and prominent expertise but I doubt neither of us have much true knowledge (based on the relatively high positions he's held) as to who he's discussed funding with or gained potential further experience in that regard so it's all here say that we've agreed to wait for further information on anyway. As stated I actually listened to your opinion and will not take his party line for face value and aim to wait longer to make a judgement on what he has to say. Why question if I practice the art of critical thinking when I'm the only one who's managed to point out evidenced arguments that I've been willing to change my mind on due to others? I think you're the one that has lacked that critical thinking in your regular display of not understanding or reading what my posts have already stated (again, for the third time lol). Your assumptions /statements often come a post or two late to the party but never less cynical.

The world will know if he has something worthwhile to say so that his speach actually makes a lasting impact and gets beaten around the news a little more. Again though, I've practiced that critical thinking thing a post ahead of your query on the matter and already confessed in the post your quoting that I would wait for more info rather than take it as gospel.

Again you've accused me of things you can't even read is evidenced to be incorrect in the posts you quote. Every time I point an issue out with your argument style, with your false statements, your contradictory language and your failed ability to make anyone listen with any meaningful sources then you buckle and hide behind a new assertion that is already disproven by a post of mine before you even make it like the snide attempt to reference critical thinking, the contradictory statements you couldn't back up, your failure to prove your own points in showing how I'd tripped over some mystical narrative of several sources (despite your other claim that I take them for gospel, as if somehow taking several conflicting sources for gospel can even make sense if they conflict with one another). You're floundering like a fish out of water, no one wants you to be a teacher because you're a terrible judge of character (made so many wrong assertions that were within posts you quoted), a worthless source of credibility that can't back up anything he says (even when I gave you a chance to avoid using tabloid and just reference the comments you made on this board about me you fail to present even that evidence that has been disproven anyway) and you're obsessed with trying to act like you know more and you've done your homework but despite bemoaning the tabloids you refuse to present any of your 'homework'. What is the point of this homework if you're willing to spend all this time posting on failed character assassinations based on contradictory statements and false assertions that have 3 times propped up to be proven wrong by posts already made. You have no argument, you have no credibility and you have nothing to show that has convinced anyone otherwise. If you feel different then show your hand but you've already proven time and again that you fail to produce evidence, you fail to land the mark on character assassinations and then you fail to make anyone consider anything you say more than an ego ploy from someone pretending to have answers but refusing to show them. It's not a game of magic, it's a debate about the future of peoples role in europe. If you really cared as much as your posts show you do and you had real evidence you'd show it and make people accept your side, why sit around arguing in the most pathetically redundant way? Claiming you have homework, claiming you have evidence or knowledge that will prove others are so incorrect but you refuse to show it? Yet you stick around talking poo, willing to post for hours but post nothing wortwhile when you expect us to believe you can? No way, I'm out :P
 
Last edited:
Zethor said:
Less drama talk, more evidence. Wikipedia and DM links mixed with wall of text chaotic ramblings prove nothing.
Click to expand...
Well I also cited many other sources so when asking for there to be less drama it helps to acknowledge all sources posted rather than create your own false impressions with misleading remarks as well. And why when I was merely asking for the other guy to post his credible sources and to quit his character assassinations would I be the bad guy for merely letting my posts get a little longer than I should? I was merely being thorough in pointing out his failings while offering to listen to his points but requesting he back them up with evidence. In the end he was trolling, he ran his mouth, contributed nothing so I requested he step it up to contribute while pointing out where he was trolling. If you wanted it to stop then why not request people stop trolling?

I know how forums work and I've seen people band together before regardless of whether it's trying to give out misinformation or not, he's not contributed anything to that particular part of the dialogue so I chose to ignore him to end the wall of texts, blaming me is a bit one sided when it takes two to tango and three to comment about an argument already finished apparently. Back on topic though (omg imagine) I really am wanting this to move ahead and real figures come about in regards to how much it costs to be in the EU (including as I stated, implicated real world costs) and the benefits we get from it. It's obviously got a lot of political support from a lot of politicians and I am mindful of how some that voted to not go into the EU are wanting to stick with it now, it is quite telling in that regard but it's hard to know how much poltical propaganda our own politicans are subjected to themselves to be fair. A lot of politicians are practically being threatened with the reshuffle which causes worry about there positions and seems a bit inappropriate at such a time.

Cost of immigration for germany seems to be going way higher each time they predict it.
https://www.rt.com/news/330869-germany-migrants-50bn-cost/
that being from germany themselves though and the Cologne Institute for Economic Research. Starting to worry how much the costs of being in the EU really are but I guess it's just a waiting game at this point, we're all kind of guessing around the hedges while hoping they'll reveal more and more info during the actual debate periods. Not worth getting worked up over till we let the polticians dig up the dirt and embarass one another. A lot of these predictions are probably not even factoring in potential displacement from the turk / saud operations / further russian and syrian aggressions or if turkey (having got sick of EU not paying up) does let a few more of those migrants through.
 
Last edited:
Three of the 58 suspects arrested in connection with the mass sex attack on women in Cologne on New Year’s Eve were refugees from Iraq or Syria.

Refugees have been widely targetted following more than 1,000 reports of theft, sex assault and rape of women at Cologne’s central train station - leading to a hardening of attitudes towards Chancellor Angela Merkel’s open door policy.

On Sunday, it emerged that of those arrested only two had recently arrived from Syria and one from Iraq.

The majority of the suspects were of Algerian (25 people), Tunisian (3) or Moroccan (21) origin and three were German citizens, according to Cologne public prosecutor Ulrich Bremer.

Speaking to German newspaper Die Welt, he said that of 1,054 complaints received, 600 were connected to theft rather than a sexual offence.
Click to expand...

(Source).
 
Evangelion said:
(Source).
Click to expand...
I saw that as well, figured I'd leave posting it lest people complain about tabloids, railing on about anti-immagration etc. It really does mix with what I've said about failure to police the mass migrations though and it seems to me that being in the EU only creates pressure to accept that sort of stuff. 3 of 58 is only the ones they arrested though, wonder how many actually did partake in it in total and whether the EU wants to continue denying which parts did it despite the witness statements / initial police statements.

A lot of eastern european nations have been building up there walls and fences (man I lauged when I heard them say they built a second wall so the message to migrants was 'we have a second wall so give up' so flatly) so don't see how this is going to be shared among us very well.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...mber-countries-to-accept-160000-refugees.html

Still, looks like they're not really listening to what the other countries think as usual.
 
Last edited:
estebanrey said:
Since when were Syria or Iraq in Africa?
Click to expand...

I don't think my comment suggested they were?

We all know that many people have used the refugee crisis, and the empathy displayed for the plight of Syrian refugees, to enter Europe purely for financial gain. Heck even the BBC interviewed "refugees" who were coming from Pakistan, and all over Africa, wearing trendy clothing and tapping away on their smartphones.

I don't really care if they are Syrian rapists or African rapists, to be honest. Either way the appropriate response is to deport them. They forfeit their own human rights by committing such crimes.

Or at least they should.

People have been hoodwinked, and brow-beaten, into accepting the world's vagrants and opportunists, in addition to the genuine refugees.
 
Evangelion said:
They weren't claiming to be refugees, and three of them were actually German citizens.
Click to expand...

We wen't under the impression that this was done by genuine refugees, of which time and again it's been indicated that it's only 20% of the migrant hoard coming into Europe. But by entitled economic immigrants trying to take advantage of the chaos and lack of balls from the EU to flood into europe and bring with them there unique brand of misogyny and backwards culture. And i would be interested to know the ethnic background of these 'German citizens'

Remember, 600 'British citizens' went to fight with ISIS, but in their own head they are far from being 'British' and belong to the same backwards culture.
 
Last edited:
Evangelion said:
(Source).
Click to expand...

I don't see how that really changes anything - the point is that only three of them were German and they all fit into the general category of asylum seekers- the thousands of people streaming across the Med to Europe. Oh, and only 400 sexual assaults - well that must be reassuring the Germany's womenfolk :rolleyes:
 
scorza said:
Free Trade Agreement sounds good, think I can live with filling in a bit of paperwork before my two week holiday in the Sun, I do it when I go to other non-EU countries after all.
Click to expand...

Heck, it's just filling in a bit of card on the plane half the time!
 
scorza said:
Free Trade Agreement sounds good, think I can live with filling in a bit of paperwork before my two week holiday in the Sun, I do it when I go to other non-EU countries after all.
Click to expand...

A few caveats with the bog standard FTA:

  • Retirement and academia also affected
  • Don't get the full access to the Common Market
  • Hence increased costs for businesses dealing with Europe (e.g. needing to individually harmonise any disparities in trade regs and documentation which will surely emerge, or might be required, i.e. duplication of paperwork)
  • Both Europe and the UK will have to sort out close to 2m people each with visas, work permits, residence permits or citizenships as appropriate
  • Bash out tax arrangements and access to social services and healthcare for those who qualify now, e.g. pensioners
  • The price of holidays may go up in line with the administrative burden
  • Consumer protection rights [not sure about employment law atm] may start to vary between Europe and the UK over time

But yes, free movement would become history, you won't have to pay tariffs and won't have to agree separate tariff-free deals with each trade partner in the bloc separately.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom