Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)

[datalol-jack]

Non-tariff barriers for those who don't know what Grey means by the term in his discussion of the FTA:

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/nontariff-barrier.asp

 

[robgmun]

That guy is stuck on a thought "free movement of people" he does know we moved around before the EU .

It really seems like the pro-EU camp seems to under the impression that if we leave the EU, all the other countries will pull up the drawbridge and stop anyone from the UK holidaying or working anywhere. And they would deport any UK persons living and working in the EU. It's such a wired bizarre hyperbole and you only have to look at history to learn that europeans didn't have a problem moving around and working in europe for decades before the EU.

But if some countries want to become spiteful it would be cutting off the nose to spite the face and they'd be the ones losing out not us.

 

[marmalade]

Prior to the EU the UK belonged to the outer 7 and trade was entirely free between them . As for movement of people one just showed ones passport no visa was needed in Europe and the UK's criminal classes lived and holidayed in Spain as was/ is their wont. The UK would have similar trade tariffs to those raising them. Most goods can be otherwise sourced and would be. All this scaremongering about leaving is complete nonsense the UK would be much better off. But who is going to make up the uks cash input? The Frogs never put in more than they take out (it's against their religion) So Germany is going to be doing some cash shoveling! Then of course there are the Greeks don't want to pay can't pay Mad Merkel will have to deal with that problem all over again. Course the UK's exit will leave others thinking of an exit! Hungarians among others are not keen on living in a foreign and dangerous country with parallel moozlem societies in their midst - course Mad Merkel's voters in the not too distant future will be having all of the fears that the Hungarians are already all too aware of.Just noticed that Greece's outspoken ex-finance minister Yanis Varoufakis tells Britain to stand up to EU 'farce' I rather like him. He is quiet correct http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...is-tells-Britain-to-stand-up-to-EU-farce.html
The Eu is run by civil servants who answer to no one - the whole edifice is a complete nonsense and with the Euro across so many different economies Italy and Greece ( to name but 2) where paying tax is absolutely discretionary. Yanis like myself spends time in OZ ( particularly in the winter) maybee this gives us a better prospective of the shambles? Course like other German farmers I worry about the ridiculous milk prices and if the rape will pay for it all.

 

[datalol-jack]

Prior to the EU the UK belonged to the outer 7 and trade was entirely free between them . As for movement of people one just showed ones passport no visa was needed in Europe and the UK's criminal classes lived and holidayed in Spain as was/ is their wont. The UK would have similar trade tariffs to those raising them. Most goods can be otherwise sourced and would be. All this scaremongering about leaving is complete nonsense the UK would be much better off. But who is going to make up the uks cash input? The Frogs never put in more than they take out (it's against their religion) So Germany is going to be doing some cash shoveling! Then of course there are the Greeks don't want to pay can't pay Mad Merkel will have to deal with that problem all over again

Prior to the EU we lived in a very different world, things have moved on since then, friend.

 

[Cromulent]

Prior to the EU the UK belonged to the outer 7 and trade was entirely free between them . As for movement of people one just showed ones passport no visa was needed in Europe and the UK's criminal classes lived and holidayed in Spain as was/ is their wont. The UK would have similar trade tariffs to those raising them. Most goods can be otherwise sourced and would be. All this scaremongering about leaving is complete nonsense the UK would be much better off. But who is going to make up the uks cash input? The Frogs never put in more than they take out (it's against their religion) So Germany is going to be doing some cash shoveling! Then of course there are the Greeks don't want to pay can't pay Mad Merkel will have to deal with that problem all over again. Course the UK's exit will leave others thinking of an exit! Hungarians among others are not keen on living in a foreign and dangerous country with parallel moozlem societies in their midst.

I really don't think the UK would be better off out of Europe. In Europe we are a powerful leading country in one of the worlds most powerful political organisations. Outside of Europe we are just a small island that nobody really cares about. Even the USA want the UK to stay in Europe.

Lets face it the days of the British empire are long gone and the UK needs to work with other countries to assert our power on the global stage. Europe is the best way of doing that.

 

[deuse]

Prior to the EU we lived in a very different world, things have moved on since then, friend.

If you believe this then the old visa system is the way to go. My parents took me all over the place in the 60s and never had a problem.

The EU buy more of us then we buy off them. When we leave, we can trade with the world AGAIN.

 

[robgmun]

Prior to the EU we lived in a very different world, things have moved on since then, friend.

The economic standings of the main European countries (UK, Spain, France, Italy, Germany) have been pretty consistent in being relative to one other over the decades so i don't see why it would be a problem to setup a new Trade agreement without much issue. As i said, trying to 'Punish' the UK for leaving the EU would probably cause more damage to themselves than anyone else.

 

[Freakbro]

I did read somewhere than one option after a Brexit would be to stay in the EEA (European Economic Area) which would mean we would be sovereign and autonomous but still be bound by the 'free movement of EU people' aspect amongst other things.

Is that right and a viable option? As it seems to be the worst of both worlds imo

 

[deuse]

I really don't think the UK would be better off out of Europe. In Europe we are a powerful leading country in one of the worlds most powerful political organisations. Outside of Europe we are just a small island that nobody really cares about. Even the USA want the UK to stay in Europe.

Lets face it the days of the British empire are long gone and the UK needs to work with other countries to assert our power on the global stage. Europe is the best way of doing that.

The only reason the US want us to stay in is because of the TPP. And if that goes through we're finished.

But it does look like Cameron is getting the bullies behind him.

 

[datalol-jack]

The economic standings of the main European countries (UK, Spain, France, Italy, Germany) have been pretty consistent in being relative to one other over the decades so i don't see why it would be a problem to setup a new Trade agreement without much issue. As i said, trying to 'Punish' the UK for leaving the EU would probably cause more damage to themselves than anyone else.

If that's right, and they'd would lose out beyond their capacity to bear by our exit, why aren't they more acquiescent to our demands in the current negotiations? They know the implications of our PM not getting a robust deal for the upcoming referendum.

 

[Mr Jack]

Is that right and a viable option? As it seems to be the worst of both worlds imo

According to some it's the most likely option. Part of the problem for the Leave campaign is that it's really not clear what an "out" Britain will look like. I think leaving but then rejoining the EEA will simply reduce our say in important matters that affect us since we'll bound by a host of rules that we neither have direct democratic influence of nor are negotiated by our government.

 

[robgmun]

I did read somewhere than one option after a Brexit would be to stay in the EEA (European Economic Area) which would mean we would be sovereign and autonomous but still be bound by the 'free movement of EU people' aspect amongst other things.

Is that right and a viable option? As it seems to be the worst of both worlds imo

Well how can we be sovereign and autonomous but be bound by the 'free movement of EU people'? It would render the whole thing pointless if we don't have control of our borders

 

[Mr Jack]

The only reason the US want us to stay in is because of the TPP. And if that goes through we're finished.

You mean TTIP: TPP is the one that covers the US and Australia, NZ, etc.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Prior to the EU we lived in a very different world, things have moved on since then, friend.

And things can move on again. Schengen is going to collapse this summer anyway so talk of free movement may well become academic.

 

[scorza]

I really don't think the UK would be better off out of Europe. In Europe we are a powerful leading country in one of the worlds most powerful political organisations. Outside of Europe we are just a small island that nobody really cares about. Even the USA want the UK to stay in Europe.

Lets face it the days of the British empire are long gone and the UK needs to work with other countries to assert our power on the global stage. Europe is the best way of doing that.

The UK isn't allowed to work with other countries while we're in the EU, the EU works with other countries on our behalf (and all the other 27 member states). In fact as soon as trade negotiations start any UK officials present get asked to leave the room.

 

[deuse]

You mean TTIP: TPP is the one that covers the US and Australia, NZ, etc.

My bad. You're correct

A good read about it

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

 

[Freakbro]

Well how can we be sovereign and autonomous but be bound by the 'free movement of EU people'? It would render the whole thing pointless if we don't have control of our borders

That's why I'm asking the question

But isn't this the same sort of deal Norway, Switzerland etc have?

I think we all need to be honest about the options ahead, and what the Govt will be aiming for, else you guys might not get what you think you are voting for.

According to some it's the most likely option. Part of the problem for the Leave campaign is that it's really not clear what an "out" Britain will look like. I think leaving but then rejoining the EEA will simply reduce our say in important matters that affect us since we'll bound by a host of rules that we neither have direct democratic influence of nor are negotiated by our government.

Hmm, worrying. That's why I say it seems the worst of both worlds

The out campaign won't get their close the borders mantra, and the in campaign won't get their seat at the table for negotiating.

 

[datalol-jack]

The EU buy more of us then we buy off them. When we leave, we can trade with the world AGAIN.

Erm..where did you get that definition of a trade deficit? We make several times our contribution back, yes, and circa 40% of our trade is with the EU, but we also import more from Europe not the other way around.

We trade with the world now, but are presently gambling on making our most crucial market more costly.

Here's our trade relationships directly from the horse's mouth:
http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN06091.pdf -- pdf download.

 

[robgmun]

If that's right, and they'd would lose out beyond their capacity to bear by our exit, why aren't they more acquiescent to our demands in the current negotiations? They know the implications of our PM not getting a robust deal for the upcoming referendum.

That's something you'll have to ask the EU bureaucrats, from what i've seen from the EU parliament sittings they seem like very meat headed arrogant entitled egocentrics who are more interested in serving their own interests then serving the people of europe. Honestly you think our MP's are bad and untrustworthy? They pale into comparison to the EU lot who really seem like thoroughly unpleasant people that i wouldn't **** on them if they were on fire!

 

[datalol-jack]

That's why I'm asking the question

But isn't this the same sort of deal Norway, Switzerland etc have?

I think we all need to be honest about the options ahead, and what the Govt will be aiming for, else you guys might not get what you think you are voting for.

FTA or Common Market-lite minus Free Movement is the favoured UKIP solution to our exit. Trouble is, they won't be getting a lot of say in the post-Brexit negotiations. The other Leave campaign, disliked by the more populist pressure groups, and the Tory party at large favour EEA.

All major options are in the blog post Cosimo linked. Unlike the previous Prof., Grey is actually an expert on the subject.