Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)

[deuse]

I spent 3 months looking for an experienced PostgreSQL DBA on a 3 month contract and couldn't find one, yes.

So they was offering crap wages then. A database manager gets about £50k a year. Ask on here there are loads..at the right price.

But having said that, if you don't want to pay the going rate then you'll go the black market route

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Thought you were a police officer? Surely the police have more important things to be getting on with than recruiting technical staff? There are after all, recruitment companies that will do that for you.

Recruiting companies that charge a small fortune for each hour they work for you. All the candidates they pick also have to still be reviewed by you and thoroughly checked because recruiting agencies are just another business trying to make money, they have no qualms about sending anyone who meets the minimum requirements your way. In the end you end up spending more money and just as much time filtering through the applicants as you would by searching yourself for someone to fill one role. Agencies really benefit those who want to hire many people the most.

Have you ever had to recruit anyone before?


I imagine the tax payers money who pay for this would be better spent elsewhere considering that his time will still be taken up by reviewing candidates.

 

[scorza]

Recruiting companies that charge a small fortune for each hour they work for you. All the candidates they pick also have to still be reviewed by you and thoroughly checked because recruiting agencies are just another business trying to make money, they have no qualms about sending anyone who meets the minimum requirements your way. In the end you end up spending more money and just as much time filtering through the applicants as you would by searching yourself for someone to fill one role. Agencies really benefit those who want to hire many people the most.

Have you ever had to recruit anyone before?


I imagine the tax payers money who pay for this would be better spent elsewhere considering that his time will still be taken up by reviewing candidates.

Is that cost more or less than the cost of diverting one of your existing staff onto recruitment instead of value added work and then them not finding anyone after all?

Actually I have been involved in recruiting people actually - probably more than you have in fact. Using an external recruitment company is great - lets them get on with what they're good at, advertising jobs, pre-screening candidates etc and lets me get on with what I'm good at. The idea of losing a serving police officer, if that is the case, for three months to do recruitment is bizarre and wasteful.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Is that cost more or less than the cost of diverting one of your existing staff onto recruitment instead of value added work and then them not finding anyone after all?

Actually I have been involved in recruiting people actually - probably more than you have in fact. Using an external recruitment company is great - lets them get on with what they're good at, advertising jobs, pre-screening candidates etc and lets me get on with what I'm good at. The idea of losing a serving police officer, if that is the case, for three months to do recruitment is bizarre and wasteful.

If you are telling me that you think he has devoted his entire three months working hours to recruiting then you have quite the misunderstanding.

Also it most definitely can be more than the cost of the time burnsey spends on a weekly basis looking for someone to fill the role. Also no matter how much you think or actually actually actually () have spent recruiting, you will never manage to convince anyone here of your competency of it with these posts.

 

[scorza]

If you are telling me that you think he has devoted his entire three months working hours to recruiting then you have quite the misunderstanding.

Also it most definitely can be more than the cost of the time burnsey spends on a weekly basis looking for someone to fill the role. Also no matter how much you think or actually actually actually () have spent recruiting, you will never manage to convince anyone here of your competency of it with these posts.

The two 'actually's were deliberate.

LOL why did you bother asking then? In case you missed it Burnsy failed to find a suitable candidate, so all that time and money spent searching was for nothing. What does that say about competence?

 

[Burnsy2023]

Thought you were a police officer? Surely the police have more important things to be getting on with than recruiting technical staff? There are after all, recruitment companies that will do that for you.

Search my post history.

So they was offering crap wages then. A database manager gets about £50k a year. Ask on here there are loads..at the right price.

But having said that, if you don't want to pay the going rate then you'll go the black market route

We were offering £600 per day. We were also talking to recruitment companies who could not find someone who had the level of expertise or experience that we needed for a specific application.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

The two 'actually's were deliberate.

LOL why did you bother asking then? In case you missed it Burnsy failed to find a suitable candidate, so all that time and money spent searching was for nothing. What does that say about competence?

Why does anyone ask a rhetorical question?

Owait

 

[Burnsy2023]

The two 'actually's were deliberate.

LOL why did you bother asking then? In case you missed it Burnsy failed to find a suitable candidate, so all that time and money spent searching was for nothing. What does that say about competence?

For reference, we did eventually find one, a fair bit later. It was 3 months of delay we could have done without though.

My point is that even when you offer good money, getting specialist skills can be hard, even more so when you're limiting your search to just the UK.

 

[datalol-jack]

http://www.theguardian.com/society/joepublic/2010/feb/03/prison-education-training-low-skills

So basically an article about the plight of poor, uneducated and unskilled natives, with 'black and minority ethnic people, offenders/ex-offenders and disabled people.' being of primary concern to the author for historical reasons re reportedly alleged bias in the MoJ, and how sentencing works out for those groups.

Quite a tenuous link to make to seasonal labour and blue-collar economic migrants.

From the OED for BAME to all lurkers:

Black, Asian, and minority ethnic (used to refer to members of non-white communities in the UK).

Still, looking at the prison stats and migration, you'll have a greater chance of convincing me that a 60 year-old white pensioner without school qualifications is a serial offender in prison, or has a higher risk to be, than a Polish builder. I jest pretty close to the truth here. That's how silly the claims about crime and migration really are.

For everyone's reference, data sources direct from the MOJ and ONS catalogue on the topics touched in the recent discussion:

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/prison-population-figures-2015
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/race-and-the-criminal-justice-system
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-met...ation-and-migration/data-catalogue/index.html
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04334/SN04334.pdf

What our politicians get to inform them in debates:
http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/

You can search by topic of interest, etc.

To conclude, out of the total of the ~13% minority that's foreign nationals in our prisons the largest grouping is Polish, Irish and Jamaican. Which doesn't agree with the 'Majority of Polish/recent EU migrants are more likely to commit crime, and do, and should be restricted' mantra, as the following journal article on CJ goes to demonstrate:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-2311.2010.00655.x/abstract -- I have the full copy, but I can't post it for copyright reasons; if you live near a university, you can arrange to borrow/view it from any decently stocked academic library.

So it looks like we do catch those pesky illegal immigrants and treat them as we do other criminals; that is, on merit of individual cases and crimes committed, and punish accordingly. The prison figures follow the overall demographic profile of the UK, as you would expect in any crime statistics anywhere in the world -- big surprise! There's also little data to back up the claim that Eastern EU migrants are more violent criminals and commit proportionately more violent crime; which is why it is always important to distinguish between 'all recorded crime' and crimes in each category, and look at incidence rates relative to the sections of the population and the population as a whole.

 

[robgmun]

Or to control EU migration so you get all the good stuff, but stop all the less desirable immigration (from an economic/social/etc perspective). Basically skimming off the cream... then the migration we get from the EU would be even better on average.

Indeed, not sure why DP thinks the answer is to ram the UK with immigration full stop. I never once heard him say "controlled immigration" if he did then he'd be surprised at the amount of people agreeing with him, me included.

 

[robgmun]

I spent 3 months looking for an experienced PostgreSQL DBA on a 3 month contract and couldn't find one, yes.

Then quite frankly, you might have not been offering enough money for the role, i can see 2 from where i'm sitting right now, both UK born. £600 is on the very bottom of the scale for a DBA, i'm not surprised that you had problems recruiting.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Then quite frankly, you might have not been offering enough money for the role, i can see 2 from where i'm sitting right now, both UK born.

Are they both in work? Probably not available to work elsewhere then. You can see my posts above how much was offered.

 

[robgmun]

Are they both in work? Probably not available to work elsewhere then. You can see my posts above how much was offered.

Sorry, as i said in the edit, £600 is the very bottom of the scale for a DBA, that's what my company is paying for a desktop engineer, it's no wonder you were struggling. Did you get someone really fresh or where you lucky to get someone with experiance?

 

[Burnsy2023]

Sorry, as i said in the edit, £600 is the very bottom of the scale for a DBA, that's what my company is paying for a desktop engineer, it's no wonder you were struggling. Did you get someone really fresh or where you lucky to get someone with experiance?

If you're paying £600 for a desktop engineer, then you're paying way over the odds.

Out of curiosity, what would you say was the average daily rate for a Postgres DBA?

We did get someone experienced. They were pretty good by all accounts, just not when we needed them.

 

[robgmun]

Of course you do! The chief difference between fact and opinion -- data; you know the stuff that actually happens vs the stuff you think happens.

So again, you would go with the gut instinct and no clue to offer simple solutions to complex problems, which you think will just vanish if you act without thinking?

But let's not go as far the country, try running your own life arbitrarily without any data for your decisions, and nothing but sensationalist media to fill the void, and see how successful you'll be. The chance of that isn't zero, but I'd bet against you.

As i said but Burnsy2023 ignored because i have a feeling i'm right. Our prisons are not filled with professionals like Doctors, Nurses, IT guys, GP's, scientists, lawyers etc but with the low end of the social scale

 

[Burnsy2023]

As i said but Burnsy2023 ignored because i have a feeling i'm right. Our prisons are not filled with professionals like Doctors, Nurses, IT guys, GP's, scientists, lawyers etc but with the low end of the social scale

I'm not disputing that. I just wanted a source. I'm happy to accept that most crime is from less educated types.

I see you've ignored my point in the post above. For the record, it's clear you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Links to average daily rates for (senior) desktop engineers and Postgres DBAs:

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/contracts/uk/postgresql dba.do

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/contracts/uk/senior desktop engineer.do

 

[Parabellum]

Britain does not need the eu... the eu needs Britain

If the UK decides to turn its back on the European project, the EU will continue its dangerous spiral towards an ‘ever closer union’, culminating in a political and fiscal union that is doomed to fail.

 

[robgmun]

I see you've ignored my point in the post above. For the record, it's clear you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Links to average daily rates for (senior) desktop engineers and Postgres DBAs:

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/contracts/uk/postgresql dba.do

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/contracts/uk/senior desktop engineer.do

I know you get your sources from "Job Sites" but at the end of the day the IT jobs market is a very fluid one and is market driven, if you can't get someone to bite for £600 per day then you're paying too low, not to mention that most DBA i know don't like to contract because of job security and hassle with taxes etc and prefer to be full time. In fact if you re-arrange that same budget to make it a permanent placement you'll find a lot more DBA (and IT types in general) come out of the woodwork

 

[chris_h]

Are there issues with the EU we can agree on?

There must be common ground.

 

[Burnsy2023]

I know you get your sources from "Job Sites" but at the end of the day the IT jobs market is a very fluid one and is market driven, if you can't get someone to bite for £600 per day then you're paying too low, not to mention that most DBA i know don't like to contract because of job security and hassle with taxes etc and prefer to be full time. In fact if you re-arrange that same budget to make it a permanent placement you'll find a lot more DBA (and IT types in general) come out of the woodwork

Or perhaps my point that there isn't enough supply is completely valid?

We didn't want a permanent position, just like we didn't want a Oracle DBA or desktop engineer. Changing our requirements does not change the fact that the business able to get the skills it needs.