Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

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Just a reminder: our *entire* influence in the EU is 8%.

We are not 'at the heart of Europe' or any such nonsense.

We have voting rights of 8%.
http://bit.ly/24eeoWB

We are the 5th largest economy on the planet, a position we **** away, in return for 8% influence in the world's ONLY declining trading bloc. And bizarrely, we pay £Billions every year for the privilege. Money unwillingly extracted from poor old taxpayers.

Clear?

Instead, we could have complete freedom, keep the billions we give to the EU, and have 100% decision making ability over everything. We could trade with whom we want, how we want, develop industries, our fisheries, our financial institutions how we like. We would still trade with the countries remaining in the EU. Punitive tariffs are illegal under WTO rules, and the Lisbon Treaty enshrines the fact that any leaving country is granted a trade deal.

The politicians we elect would actually be able to set policy, the vast majority of UK businesses who have nothing to do with the EU would be freed from petty and costly legislation.

We would control our borders, and be able to decide who is allowed in. Brits would still be able to live in any country that'll have them, and go on holiday to Spain or wherever they want.
 
Trifid said:
We have a lot more say in the world then 1/190th, yes we are no USA but we are no Belgium either. As much as you may want to believe otherwise, we are not a small country with a small voice. This only happens in the EU because we are not a fully signed up and committed member. Regarding NATO contributions, check which countries are meeting their obligation. But I am not suggesting using a big explosive stick to force trade, if any sticks are going to be used, it will be the EU. And do we want to be part of a club that keeps in members in line with a stick? And I have many times conceded that economically leaving will hurt, but this will be minimised by a slow exit.
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Fair enough. My final point would be that, whatever alliances one imagines, there must be enforceable rules everyone plays by. Fundamentalist national interest (our way or the highway), like fundamentalist personal interest, to the point of irrationality, doesn't work because it quickly diverges from the facts on the ground, and creates crises outside one's ability to anticipate and deal with effectively.

We disagree, but at least you have a more sensible take on things than scorza.

b0redj0rd said:
we could have complete freedom
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Ha! :D Something like this deserves a text-wall of its own, but I'm bored and out of good referendum booze.

Enjoy your weekend.
 
datalol-jack said:
Apparently Gove has flown the nest; but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't he about as popular as Clegg at a student party? Will Boris commit now too?



Looking at historic recessions, depressions and geopolitical disasters, their cyclical frequency and outcome; I beg to differ. Oh dear... But let's roll, granting you your conspiracy theory, how's an actual plan more uncertain than no plan at all, and just vague ravings about being more like country 'X'?
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And in what? 40 years of the EU we've got most of Southern Europe bankrupt and rampant lawlessness as hordes of migrants roam around Central Europe. If that's the future the EU offers then count me out.

What conspiracy theory? The words 'ever closer union' exist and they mean exactly what they appear to mean.
 
datalol-jack said:
We disagree, but at least you have a more sensible take on things than scorza.
Click to expand...

Despite how my posts come across, I don't particularly want to see the UK leave the EU, I'm just not particularly happy with how it is at the moment and have great concerns about what it will be in the future. I am just not afraid of leaving it and may or may not vote to stay in, this is why I haven't voted in any of the polls on here.
 
b0redj0rd said:
Just a reminder: our *entire* influence in the EU is 8%.

We are not 'at the heart of Europe' or any such nonsense.

We have voting rights of 8%.
http://bit.ly/24eeoWB

We are the 5th largest economy on the planet, a position we **** away, in return for 8% influence in the world's ONLY declining trading bloc. And bizarrely, we pay £Billions every year for the privilege. Money unwillingly extracted from poor old taxpayers.

Clear?

Instead, we could have complete freedom, keep the billions we give to the EU, and have 100% decision making ability over everything. We could trade with whom we want, how we want, develop industries, our fisheries, our financial institutions how we like. We would still trade with the countries remaining in the EU. Punitive tariffs are illegal under WTO rules, and the Lisbon Treaty enshrines the fact that any leaving country is granted a trade deal.

The politicians we elect would actually be able to set policy, the vast majority of UK businesses who have nothing to do with the EU would be freed from petty and costly legislation.

We would control our borders, and be able to decide who is allowed in. Brits would still be able to live in any country that'll have them, and go on holiday to Spain or wherever they want.
Click to expand...

C&P'd to FB
 
Read news today, saw the EU nations ripping our deal apart. It's getting watered down and then they are trying to put it so we can't hold any second referendum but considering they know half of what we agree will probably be crapped on (as tusk and others already throw in our face before the deal is even over) then if they don't live up to there end they basically say we are screwed. Thanks for voting to stay but glad you are suckers? Appalling they could try and force such a move when we are voting to try and stay in based on a certain negotiation and they might not even honour those parts and now want it so that no matter how little it's honoured we have to like it or lump it?
 
^^ There are NO guarantees that any new terms are going to be upheld regardless.

When a migrant who used to receive benefits see's them reduced under the new plan and takes their case to the European court of human rights, I wonder what will happen .. :rolleyes:
 
Insanties_birth said:
Read news today, saw the EU nations ripping our deal apart. It's getting watered down and then they are trying to put it so we can't hold any second referendum but considering they know half of what we agree will probably be crapped on (as tusk and others already throw in our face before the deal is even over) then if they don't live up to there end they basically say we are screwed.
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The thing about a second referendum refers to the event of a 'no' vote and Cameron is more than happy to see it.

As for confirming the deal: the EU council cannot bind the hands of other democratic agents. They cannot tell the parliament to vote one way or another; they can't guarantee that 28 democratic national parliaments will approve what they say; and they can't bind the hands of all future negotiators and representatives for ever and ever, amen.

If Cameron wasn't make such a hamfisted job of this on a ludicrous timescale of his own making there would be a lot more time for certainty about these matters.
 
That's a point, if this negotiation involves treaty changes, Ireland will have to ask the people to vote on whether we agree to the UKs new terms.

That'll be fun.....

Imagine the UK votes to stay, but Ireland's referendum rejects the treaty amendments, after the UK referendum is held, what then?

Nate
 
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Reading today's news only makes me want out more

I was very much a fringe voter, now a definite out
Just too many different cultures, GDPs etc

We are always going to be net givers. And yet these countries saying no to what few demands we have?.. It just shows we are over a barrel

I still can't decide if they think "nah, they won't go" or if they want us to go. Because they are fuelling the no campaign

I'm going to have a look at the cost to the eu of pushing us out
 
datalol-jack said:
Fair enough. My final point would be that, whatever alliances one imagines, there must be enforceable rules everyone plays by. Fundamentalist national interest (our way or the highway), like fundamentalist personal interest, to the point of irrationality, doesn't work because it quickly diverges from the facts on the ground, and creates crises outside one's ability to anticipate and deal with effectively.

We disagree, but at least you have a more sensible take on things than scorza.



Ha! :D Something like this deserves a text-wall of its own, but I'm bored and out of good referendum booze.

Enjoy your weekend.
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I bet you were in the student union at collage? :rolleyes:

The more this unfolds and the more I read even from a economical and financial view. Just get out and pick up the pieces later.

GDP between euro nations is way out of wack, all the little ****** countries moaning about child benefit being capped at the own rate.

Knowing full well our over paid benefits add to there GDP.

Its hard to leave an old friend but this one has burnt all bridges, goodbye EU nice knowing you. NOT! :mad:
 
b0redj0rd said:
^^ There are NO guarantees that any new terms are going to be upheld regardless.

When a migrant who used to receive benefits see's them reduced under the new plan and takes their case to the European court of human rights, I wonder what will happen .. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

For the 100th time in this thread, THE EUROPEAN COURT OF HUMAN RIGHTS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EUROPEAN UNION.

It includes countries such as:
RUSSIA
TURKEY
SERBIA
GEORGIA
AZERBAIJAN

How stubborn can you people be with your complete and utter ignorance?
 
Zethor said:
For the 100th time in this thread, THE EUROPEAN COURT OF HUMAN RIGHTS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EUROPEAN UNION.

It includes countries such as:
RUSSIA
TURKEY
SERBIA
GEORGIA
AZERBAIJAN

How stubborn can you people be with your complete and utter ignorance?
Click to expand...

You do realize that by the time this thread finishes, you will have to mention it at least another 100 times.
 
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