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The Financial Results Thread

Harlequin said:
Nv heavily going into AI - at the expense of retail - what is ignroed is `gaming` includes contract sales to system builders as well. Would love to see a detailed breakdown but that wont happen.

edit - oh and the increase in profit margin ;)
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MLID has had several game developers on recently, one of them made the point that Nvidia used-to go around studios helping them make their games, they have stopped doing that, he said they seem to have lost interest in wanting to be a gaming hardware company, that they have outgrown it, they want to be an AI company now......

He also made the point that while AMD are very nice, competent and helpful when you ask for help, they have never really proactively sought out to help make games, he said game developers are pretty much on their own now.
 
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What I always fine strange is the Nvidia fans coming out when the results are good.

Now if these 'fans' are actually shareholders or paid influencers then it makes sense.

But if they are Geforce gaming fans I have news your them: the more money Nvidia make from AI or data centre the less they care about gaming.

Now the BIG SPENDERS may think this doesn't concern them. Titan and £1500 buyers with rigs £5K+ should always have something to buy even if the low and mid-range disappears due to stagnation.

However, the next question then is, what happens to PC gaming? Are studios going to spend resources to cater to the people with £10K rigs?

I'd say no. Even if they could get the BIG SPENDERS to cough up £200+ per game, the numbers just wouldn't make sense.

Without a mass market, there will be next no PC gaming. And mass market needs a rig which is cost competitive with consoles; spend a bit more than console and get a far more versatile PC. Currently to outperform a console requires spending more on the GPU than the entire console costs and we are now nearly 3 years into the console generation.
 
KompuKare said:
What I always fine strange is the Nvidia fans coming out when the results are good.

Now if these 'fans' are actually shareholders or paid influencers then it makes sense.

But if they are Geforce gaming fans I have news your them: the more money Nvidia make from AI or data centre the less they care about gaming.

Now the BIG SPENDERS may think this doesn't concern them. Titan and £1500 buyers with rigs £5K+ should always have something to buy even if the low and mid-range disappears due to stagnation.

However, the next question then is, what happens to PC gaming? Are studios going to spend resources to cater to the people with £10K rigs?

I'd say no. Even if they could get the BIG SPENDERS to cough up £200+ per game, the numbers just wouldn't make sense.

Without a mass market, there will be next no PC gaming. And mass market needs a rig which is cost competitive with consoles; spend a bit more than console and get a far more versatile PC. Currently to outperform a console requires spending more on the GPU than the entire console costs and we are now nearly 3 years into the console generation.
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As many know one of the most frustrating things to me over the last couple of years has been reviewers and even Nvidia's consumers justifying their relentless ramping up of pricing.
I get why reviewers do it, its kinda asinine in logic probably born out of the cowardice that the path of least resistance is not to rock the Nvidia boat.
With that its always, "Well its more expensive than we would like, but it has these features" which is music to Nvidia's ears, because that's Nvidia's goal, its gaming as a serviced eco system, you buy the hardware to gain access to that eco system, so the hardware can become less important, because in that eco system the hardware is "3X faster" so the hardware can become a DLSS driver rather than a raster driver and therefor cheaper to make.
What a ####### surprise, i knew it..... HERE WE ARE.
 
KompuKare said:
What I always fine strange is the Nvidia fans coming out when the results are good.

Now if these 'fans' are actually shareholders or paid influencers then it makes sense.

But if they are Geforce gaming fans I have news your them: the more money Nvidia make from AI or data centre the less they care about gaming.

Now the BIG SPENDERS may think this doesn't concern them. Titan and £1500 buyers with rigs £5K+ should always have something to buy even if the low and mid-range disappears due to stagnation.

However, the next question then is, what happens to PC gaming? Are studios going to spend resources to cater to the people with £10K rigs?

I'd say no. Even if they could get the BIG SPENDERS to cough up £200+ per game, the numbers just wouldn't make sense.

Without a mass market, there will be next no PC gaming. And mass market needs a rig which is cost competitive with consoles; spend a bit more than console and get a far more versatile PC. Currently to outperform a console requires spending more on the GPU than the entire console costs and we are now nearly 3 years into the console generation.
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Because then they will start moaning about unoptimised "console" ports without realising it's been this way for years. The only difference is mainstream PC hardware is getting progressively worse and worse so it's now exposing the rot. Just look at the "average" PC on Steam - it has a GTX1650:

Also look at how many laptop cards are on there - the laptop rtx3060 has as many sales as the desktop one. All of the top 10 cards are under £500 or are in laptops. It will be the same with the Nvidia 4000 series - the cheaper ones will be the ones which sell the most or are in laptops.

You even had it with AMD uberfans clapping for high Zen 3 pricing or defending AM5 platform segmentation, or Intel selling quad cores for a decade. Or dorks defending predatory in-game monetisation,or simping for gamer girls.

I mean this is literally like someone clapping for big oil profits, whilst paying more for petrol or their gas and wearing it as a badge of honour.

humbug said:
As many know one of the most frustrating things to me over the last couple of years has been reviewers and even Nvidia's consumers justifying their relentless ramping up of pricing.
I get why reviewers do it, its kinda asinine in logic probably born out of the cowardice that the path of least resistance is not to rock the Nvidia boat.
With that its always, "Well its more expensive than we would like, but it has these features" which is music to Nvidia's ears, because that's Nvidia's goal, its gaming as a serviced eco system, you buy the hardware to gain access to that eco system, so the hardware can become less important, because in that eco system the hardware is "3X faster" so the hardware can become a DLSS driver rather than a raster driver and therefor cheaper to make.
What a ####### surprise, i knew it..... HERE WE ARE.
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Reviewers do still criticise these companies. But they get attacked by the same gamers. It's not just Nvidia, it has also happened to a lesser degree with Intel and AMD too. We have six cores becoming the new quad cores and people being totally OK with it.

Just look at consumer advocates who exposed the predatory monetisation of games, poor working practices of said companies, issues with games, etc. You had gamers trying to cancel them on social media.
 
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CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Because then they will start moaning about unoptimised "console" ports without realising it's been this way for years. The only difference is mainstream PC hardware is getting progressively worse and worse so it's now exposing the rot. Just look at the "average" PC on Steam - it has a GTX1650:

Also look at how many laptop cards are on there - the laptop rtx3060 has as many sales as the desktop one. All of the top 10 cards are under £500 or are in laptops.

You even had it with AMD uberfans clapping for high Zen 3 pricing or defending AM5 platform segmentation, or Intel selling quad cores for a decade. Or dorks defending predatory in-game monetisation,or simping for gamer girls.

I mean this is literally like someone clapping for big oil profits, whilst paying more for petrol or their gas and wearing it as a badge of honour.
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Eh... i paid £440 for my 5080X, that's about £150 more than i normally spend on a CPU.

At the time i had a Ryzen 3600, i need something better.
Intel's best was the 10900K, in the most multithreaded of multithreaded workloads the 5800X was as fast or faster, at literally half the power consumption, in games it was anything up to 30% faster.
The 10900K was £500.
A cracking B550 motherboard, £165, i've just put a large capacity WD Black PCIe 4 NVMe in it, absolutely flawless, benchmarks higher on my rig than its official performance claims, by quite a chunk, and it does not take PCIe lanes away from the GPU to run it, because unlike the 10900K the 5800X has 20 usable PCIe 4 lanes as opposed to 16 on the 10900K.
The PCIe 3 NVMe its replaced now lives the a lower slot, again it hasn't taken anything away from the rest of the IO.

Yeah the 5800X was expensive, when compared to AMD's usual bargain bin pricing, but IMO its one of the very best CPU's ever launched, its very fast, its very efficient and totally uncompromised, and yet still cheaper than the best, yet falling way short competitor Intel could do at the time.

Despite the higher than AMD usual price i believe that repeople should be fairly compensated for their work, the price for this piece of work was in a competitive sense more than reasonable.
I don't believe AMD should be forever the bargain basket of people even if they make the best stuff, or what's the ###### point in them trying? AMD's products should be judged by the products merits, Not a perception of the brand.
 
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https://www.techpowerup.com/309125/...-2024-gaming-down-38-yoy-stock-still-jumps-25
 
humbug said:
Eh... i paid £440 for my 5080X, that's about £150 more than i normally spend on a CPU.

At the time i had a Ryzen 3600, i need something better.
Intel's best was the 10900K, in the most multithreaded of multithreaded workloads the 5800X was as fast or faster, at literally half the power consumption, in games it was anything up to 30% faster.
The 10900K was £500.
A cracking B550 motherboard, £165, i've just put a large capacity WD Black PCIe 4 NVMe in it, absolutely flawless, benchmarks higher on my rig than its official performance claims, by quite a chunk, and it does take PCIe lanes away from the GPU to run it, because unlike the 10900K the 5800X has 20 usable PCIe 4 lanes as opposed to 16 on the 10900K.
The PCIe 3 NVMe its replaced now lives the a lower slot, again it hasn't taken anything away from the rest of the IO.

Yeah the 5800X was expensive, when compared to AMD's usual bargain bin pricing, but IMO its one of the very best CPU's ever launched, its very fast, its very efficient and totally uncompromised, and yet still cheaper than the best, yet falling way short competitor Intel could do at the time.

Despite the higher than AMD usual price i believe that repeople should be fairly compensated for their work, the price for this piece of work was in a competitive sense more than reasonable.
I don't believe AMD should be forever the bargain basket of people even if they make the best stuff, or what's the ###### point in them trying? AMD's products should be judged by the products merits, Not a perception of the brand.
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Because it's the same mentality with Intel or Nvidia doing the same. Or some games company selling a title for £100 full of monetisation.

I go by value for money not by any care for a brand, because it maximises my performance . The US taxpayer already props these companies up with tax breaks, government contracts, etc.

Sales to consumers like us will always be higher margin than to Dell, etc.

This is why my Ryzen 7 3700X costed me £200 new in 2020 and my Ryzen 7 5700X costed me £185 new in early 2022. The RX6500 used a bigger 7NM chip than a Ryzen CPU so it's not like at even £300 the Ryzen 7 isn't making much more money.

My Core i5 10400 cost me £100 in 2021 when a Ryzen 5 3600 was almost £200.I didn't pay over the odds once for any PC part during the Pandemic.
 
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CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Because it's the same mentality with Intel or Nvidia doing the same. Or some games company selling a title for £100 full of monetisation.

I go by value for money not by any care for a brand, because it maximises my performance . The US taxpayer already props these companies up with tax breaks, government contracts, etc.

This is why my Ryzen 7 3700X costed me £200 new in 2020 and my Ryzen 7 5700X costed me £185 new in early 2022. My Core i5 10400 cost me £100 in 2021 when a Ryzen 5 3600 was almost £200.I didn't pay over the odds once for any PC part during the Pandemic.
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Its not the same thing, it was better, in some instances beyond funny better than a more expensive Intel equivalent, actually read what i said :)
 
humbug said:
Its not the same thing, it was better, in some instances beyond funny better than a more expensive Intel equivalent, actually read what i said :)
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But the Intel parts were poor value for money. The Intel six core parts were faster and cheaper than a Ryzen 7 in gaming either. But Intel charged more per core. So just because an AMD six core part beat an overpriced Intel six core part didn't excuse the cash grab for increasing six core pricing even more. Then mere months later see all those six core parts Intel fans were defending over Zen2 get a huge price reduction. AMD tried the Zen3 pricing structure with Zen4 and they had to quickly reduce pricing once sanity came back to the market.

You see it with the new launches of GPUs. Companies wouldn't be reducing prices, giving away a £60 game, or gift cards(in the US) if sales are as good as gamers on social media think.

Basically all these companies are trying a fast one on gamers IMHO. But as I said time and time again they make more per item from us than large Oems like Dell. Even during the pandemic you could buy prebuilt systems for less than buying the parts. The same is true today. Now consider those PC companies need to make money too.

As the guy from SemiWiki said all the costs touted on forums, etc are much higher than what he is seen.
 
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CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
But the Intel parts were poor value for money. The Intel six core parts were faster and cheaper than a Ryzen 7 in gaming either. But Intel charged more per core. So just because an AMD six core part beat an overpriced Intel six core part didn't excuse the cash grab for increasing six core pricing even more. Then mere months later see all those six core parts Intel fans were defending over Zen2 get a huge price reduction. AMD tried the Zen3 pricing structure with Zen4 and they had to quickly reduce pricing once sanity came back to the market.

You see it with the new launches of GPUs. Companies wouldn't be reducing prices, giving away a £60 game, or gift cards(in the US) if sales are as good as gamers on social media think.

Basically all these companies are trying a fast one on gamers IMHO. But as I said time and time again they make more per item from us than large Oems like Dell. Even during the pandemic you could buy prebuilt systems for less than buying the parts. The same is true today. Now consider those PC companies need to make money too.
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AMD comes in under the price of Intel with a much better CPU, but the Intel CPU was way over priced.

Whose fault is that and what then should i have bought?
 
humbug said:
AMD comes in under the price of Intel with a much better CPU, but the Intel CPU was way over priced.

Whose fault is that and what then should i have bought?
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Nobody defended the Core i5 price because it beat a Ryzen 5:

The $275 Core i5 10600K was 12% faster at stock clockspeeds than a $200 Ryzen 5 3600(maybe a bit more if overclocked),but cost more. The $300 Ryzen 5 5600X was 11% faster than a Core i5 10600K but cost more:

So at US pricing the cost per frame was identical for the Core i5 10600K and Ryzen 5 5600X! Sound familar?

My Ryzen 7 3700X cost less than a Ryzen 5 5600X and had a high quality stock cooler. Now consider Dell, etc will get much lower pricing than us at consumer retail. Gamers need to understand these companies are ripping us off compared to OEMs. Most of their sales are to OEMs.

Expect more and more "console" ports. That is the future of PCMR.

But going back to Nvidia. Apple makes less than 2/3 the Gross margins of Nvidia. So now think if they are selling at lower margin to larger OEMs,what type of margins end consumers sales have.

Murphy said:
They were starting to tighten their belt, i fear with this up-tick in data centre AI accelerated products the belt tightening and incentive to lower prices will now fall away.
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They will continue to do it:

The same as Nvidia pushing backwards the move to 3NM consumer dGPUs,because they want to get as much out of their 5NM investment as possible. But PCMR will defend the unofficial dGPU cartel Nvidia and AMD are falling into. This also helps AMD too,because they can just spread out releases too.

Nvidia has been trying to imply mining had no real impact of their huge Pandemic margins or consumer sales for over a year. You can only do that by normalising mining prices for PCMR to accept.

They are doing an Apple,ie,prefer lower sales with higher margins. Just look at the US consumer spending numbers:
thehill.com

Consumer spending is falling fast

Welcome to The Hill’s Business & Economy newsletter{beacon} Business & Economy Business & Economy   The Big Story Consumer spending falling rapidlyRetail sales fell …
thehill.com thehill.com

The data will only reinforce predictions of a recession later this year. Consumers have been dealing with sky-high prices for years, and it has eaten into their finances.
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Interest rates are going up and up. The US is not officially in recession yet.
 
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humbug said:
Quote the post and copy and paste its contents, usually it will copy as a quote. hit the [ ] BB thing to edit out the quote code.
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Unfortunately the above does not work anymore.

The images are now attachments for the post they were first made in. Even if you delete everything in the post the attachments will still be there.

If you try copying them to another post all you get is a link to open them not image being displayed.

I think this is an update that has happened in the last few days and it makes editing very difficult.
 
Kaapstad said:
Unfortunately the above does not work anymore.

The images are now attachments for the post they were first made in. Even if you delete everything in the post the attachments will still be there.

If you try copying them to another post all you get is a link to open them not image being displayed.

I think this is an update that has happened in the last few days and it makes editing very difficult.
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Ah..... i don't know then.

If it ain't broke don't fix it, this didn't need fixing :(
 
humbug said:
Intel's best was the 10900K, in the most multithreaded of multithreaded workloads the 5800X was as fast or faster, at literally half the power consumption, in games it was anything up to 30% faster.
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That is not true. Gnexus did some really detailed comparisons of the two, they had the exact same efficiency. A 10900k locked at 125w performed similarly to the 5800x in most multithreaded workloads, while it was much faster when power unlimited drawing twice the wattage. I know you don't like Intel but please, come on, let's not skew the facts. Also, the 10850k was released around the same time that cost as much as the 5600x, while handily beating it. Very handily I might add.
And neither the 5800x or the 5600x was 30% faster in games, now you are just making stuff up...I mean come on.

Average.png
 
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