The Game Changers - Cameron, Schwarzenegger, Chan

It will be an interesting watch.

BUT... a lot of those people are athletes who are performing at a very high level with (lets be honest here) PEDs.

Does that cover the deficiency of meat... if one exists...?
 
Humans are omnivores where literally millions of years of evolution has designed us to eat absolutely everything. However the ratio of Meat to Plant we eat, which had been stable for 99.9% of that evolutionary time, has changed over the past 2 centuries faster than human evolution can adapt to, due to industrialisation and farming etc, and the last 70 years have seen the most drastic change in that Meat/Plant balance that Homo Sapiens have ever encountered.

So does that mean that being Vegetarian is the best way forward as this Doc suggests? No, not even a little bit, and picking humans at the bleeding edge of human performance as a way to say "if they can do this so can you!" is disingenuous as these aren't normal people with normal 9-5 Mon-Fri paid jobs, they can spend far more time and effort on their bodies than "Joe Average" can.

I would be far more impressed by that firemans story than anything any of these athletes have to say TBH.
 
ianh said:
So does that mean that being Vegetarian is the best way forward as this Doc suggests? No, not even a little bit, and picking humans at the bleeding edge of human performance as a way to say "if they can do this so can you!" is disingenuous as these aren't normal people with normal 9-5 Mon-Fri paid jobs, they can spend far more time and effort on their bodies than "Joe Average" can.
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You captured that point much more eloquently than I did :D
 
Combat squirrel said:
I think ianh completely missed the point....if an elite human can easily perform on a plant based diet then obviously Joe average can more than thrive off it.
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Not only that, but these elite sportsmen and women noticed improvement on their already excellent health and fitness when cutting or restricting meat.

We have to assume that they were already training hard and pushing themselves as meat eaters. So when they switched to plant based, and noticed improvements, that has to be down to ditching the meat.

Otherwise the assumption must be - rather oddly - that they weren't giving 100% before switching to plant-based.
 
Combat squirrel said:
I think ianh completely missed the point....if an elite human can easily perform on a plant based diet then obviously Joe average can more than thrive off it.
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If I'm a couch potato weighing 25 stone doing zero exercise and working 9-5 sat in a sedentary office all day and I swap to a veg only diet, I'm not going to see anything like the improvement these folks did - I'm not missing anything, I'm being realistic because it's NOT obvious - as I said, I'll be more impressed by the results from "Mr Everyday" like the firefighter than the results from the top 1% of athletes.
 
DeanT77 said:
It will be an interesting watch.

BUT... a lot of those people are athletes who are performing at a very high level with (lets be honest here) PEDs.

Does that cover the deficiency of meat... if one exists...?
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The high levels of bodybuilding and strongmen and actors specifically cast for muscles (including women) are entirely supported by steroids/related with varying degrees below that even to casual levels.

But it doesn't change your dietary requirements. If you need X calories and X protein you can easily get it from plants with all the modern options but that's not the hard part.

The hard part is sticking to whatever controlled diet you choose for years and decades, part of the job for athletes and actors.

You may also find a large surplus of cash for food and support makes this much easier also.
 
FoxEye said:
Not only that, but these elite sportsmen and women noticed improvement on their already excellent health and fitness when cutting or restricting meat.

We have to assume that they were already training hard and pushing themselves as meat eaters. So when they switched to plant based, and noticed improvements, that has to be down to ditching the meat.

Otherwise the assumption must be - rather oddly - that they weren't giving 100% before switching to plant-based.
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Or that the act of changing their diet gave them a placebo effect, the Im doing something good so its got to be better makes them more mentally positive thus improving performance.
 
ianh said:
and the last 70 years have seen the most drastic change in that Meat/Plant balance that Homo Sapiens have ever encountered.
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That's not correct. Humans switched from meat and plant to mainly plant when agriculture came in. Look in the mirror at your teeth. Your front teeth are sharp. We have evolved to eat meat.
 
So much misinformation in this thread it's worrying, along with words like 'propoganda' to things someone doesn't agree with.

Love how some people are disagreeing with experts.

Sign of the times I suppose, part of the information war were living through.
 
Combat squirrel said:
Love how some people are disagreeing with experts.

Sign of the times I suppose, part of the information war were living through.
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The problem is that, like almost every issue, there are genuine experts on both sides of a discussion, so which experts do you listen to?
 
ianh said:
The problem is that, like almost every issue, there are genuine experts on both sides of a discussion, so which experts do you listen to?
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The world wide accepted way is, take 2 experts who pose an hypothesis & then physically test and experiment with that.

This doc - which I doubt anyone has watched yet - £7 on itunes btw. Shows real improvement for these elite switching to a plant based diet.

This is stage 1 in finding facts - preliminary results which indicate a trend as to which expert you should more likely 'believe' - because facts dont care about opinions.
 
Dammed if I pay £7 to argue :p

But check it out for us, are the people being compared being given the same nutrients but in animal/vegetable source or are we talking about changing from whatever they were eating to a healthy vegetable diet.

And was it compared to someone giving them an equally healthy omnivorous diet.

Because completely blind here, I don't think it's hard for a dietician to make someone eat a better diet no matter what food they've been told to make the diet from.
 
Being a vegan makes no sense to me. We are omnivores by nature. A balanced diet which includes meat/fish, vegetables and fruit is the only thing which seems normal to me.
 
Right ocuk iv just watched it all start to finish.

All I can say is this film is essential viewing, for your life, every petty daft comment iv read about us apparently being omnivorous or 'needing' meat is scientifically destroyed, the doc even sites all the information sources as it presents the information. It shows proper scientific tests of meat vs plant eaters measured correctly - meat eating ruins athletes - the doc addresses and brilliantly and factually removes any comments about being pro meat.

I completely understand people will argue based on their opinion, but that's irrelevant now, people can spout off their opinion on a forum all they like it won't change facts.

For the sake of your life and your families life this thing is essential viewing.

10/10 because it will immeasurably help people.

Those that choose to shun it do so with baffling ignorance.

Go on ocuk I DARE you to watch it.
 
You know what, there's a website which is free to read.

The principle of eating more vegetables is fine and that appears to be its bottom line even to the point of promoting no animal products at all.

However I greatly doubt eating a healthy diet which includes meat is significantly worse than vegetables forever.

People stuffing themselves and eating unbalanced diets is far more of a health crime to me.
 
Hotwired said:
You know what, there's a website which is free to read.

The principle of eating more vegetables is fine and that appears to be its bottom line even to the point of promoting no animal products at all.

However I greatly doubt eating a healthy diet which includes meat is significantly worse than vegetables forever.

People stuffing themselves and eating unbalanced diets is far more of a health crime to me.
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The other angle is that current global meat production is already having a terrible effect on the planet, and with more people and more meat production it's going to destroy many ecosystems and cause many extinctions.

We should cut back for that reason alone - unless the only animals we want to survive are cows, pigs and chickens.
 
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