The Game Changers - Cameron, Schwarzenegger, Chan

SpartaK said:
Why is the only time you consider feasible in the middle of a motorway?
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It's not the only one, but it's what many people waste the largest portion of their day on when they could have been exercising... Not sure I can think of any other such time, aside from sleeping.

mrk said:
I'm on about kitchen worktop corner, can do dips there, shoulder shrugs, isometric holds and so on! I don't tend to do anything on the floor in such places lol.
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So you're instead taking up both floor space and counter space (good luck with that in our galley kitchen, btw), inconveniencing your colleagues and still looking like an absolute weirdo? Well, I'm sure your lovely healthy physique will be adequate consolation for when you get looked over for promotion and no-one invites you to the Christmas party, I guess... ? :p
 
You've misunderstood. By kitchen I am on about home kitchen. At work I only do what I need to at my desk or outside or if I'm showing a colleague something new I've been able to do thanks to progressions (some of us talk about stuff we get up to etc). Either way nobody is ever inconvenienced and nobody looks weird. Everyone just does what they need to do to be comfortable/healthy and so on.

I think you are conjuring up scenarios that simply don't exist in effort to make an excuse to not be fit and healthy :p
 
Combat squirrel said:
Right, ill get back to this, but I think your numbers are way off, and your over simplifying it , just using an example that doesn't use beans or legumes for G6PD, chicken has 31 grams protein per 100 grams of chicken, yet Seitan has 25 per 100 grams - and no one eats a tiny 100 grams of 'main' per meal, 200-250 easily for a normal male, so thats 50 grams of protein per ONE meal, which is enough for one day for one meal, EASILY, and seitan is just wheat mostly.
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Numbers were checked online as I posted it, so I doubt the numbers are overly wrong unless if the pages information was wrong in the first place. Go ahead and check them, I certainly wasn't throwing them out of thin air. :)

And Wheat or Gluten avoidance being necessary for yourself as you have found out, does not mean you can't have G6PD as well or other allergies. So remember this, because I'll make mention of this further down.

However, that's not even the core point I've been making all this time. The part I am refuting has always been your assertion that "Because athletes can live off of a Vegan diet, everyone should be able to survive if not thrive off it as well." to which nothing new you have posted so far has logically convinced me otherwise given the numbers and variations involved for those with G6PD, which is a fair portion of the people of this planet still.

Just as you have posted that there are alternatives to food available, there are also other variations of combinations of conditions of allergies which you have not mentioned or ignored, which make up a fair portion of the people of the world, that would make your alternatives nothing more than trying to put out a gas fire by putting out the fire and ignoring the gas thats feeding the fire. Or by shutting off the gas only and ignoring the already ablaze environment around you. In short, I agree your suggestions work, but not for EVERYONE. And that is where the problem is (it doesn't agree with your assertion that "As athletes can go on a Vegan diet, that everyone else can survive if not thrive off it").

Combat squirrel said:
So to say you'll need a bucket of plants per meal is just silly, and if you can't eat beans seitan is easily made, no legumes, and can easily be flavoured massively differently to taste however you want.

Recently in the past 2 weeks i've found out I am celiac (my gluton anti body came back reading 128, a normal person it should have a range of 2-7) - which means NO wheat, well, Gluten forever now, no wheat, no rye, no barley - however other grains such as Oats don't have gluten in.

Now, you'd think a vegan celiac would have a hard time eating wouldn't you? - no NOT at all, there is tons and tons and tons of stuff I can eat.
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But not Seitan right? As that's formed from Gluten, from Wheat sure, but still Gluten. So you're not even G6PD, and you have this. Whilst G6PD can have that too and Nut allergy too (to which I also have a relative who is so). So...

Combat squirrel said:
I think its simply down to educating yourself, sure you've got G6PD and can easily find excuses to keep eating meat because you likely emotionally want to - but you can also easilyyyyyy live a vegan life with that condition, just as i can live mine as a gluten freegan! :D
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Again, you have not addressed what happens to say a percentage of people that will be:

G6PD (Somewhat Common), Wheat Allergic (Somewhat Common), Nut Allergic (Somewhat Common), Female (Very Common), Menopause (Common)

How do THOSE people, which still numbers into the low percentage of the population of the world, are supposed to go with a Vegan diet compared with meat?

Remember, you can't have too many fruit and veg because of Iron issues that'll causes Chirossis (damage to the liver from Iron overdose), you can't have too much Vit C because it increases Iron absorption into the body, and that's just the Female and Menopause section.

So now lets include G6PD, meaning you can't have Soy/Soya, Legumes, etc. Nut and Wheat Allergy cuts out a load of other alternatives you've proposed for the protein aspect alone. This leads to the post I went through in the numbers for a 50KG male, and that was a stupid level of those veg you need to go through for the appropriate amount of protein for a 50KG male (I had included such combinations in those numbers I gave as well as answering those sources you posted only). The allergy towards Wheat and Nut with G6PD also instantly kills off the major sources of protein that Vegans go for and for the older woman with menopause, and no natural way to remove any excess Iron now, can't go this route with the remaining Vegan diet because of the extra Iron and Vitamin C that most of the plant based diet revolves around being rich in (as well as other nutrients etc that in excess also causes other problems).

In short, your proposed suggestions still fail at least a noticable portion of the people of the planet. So in relation to your assertion that everyone could survive if not thrive off a vegan diet, is still false by the people afflicted with these combination of conditions.

Combat squirrel said:
I think it's a case of education as well - you tell people what you can't have, and they freak out, my friends parents, stuck in their ways think its unfathomable what i avoid eating - its simply a case of they have a TINY amount of food knowledge - they probably only use and eat 5-10% of available ingredients (meat n veg), and think thats all there is - same with you.

And sure you can say 'lack of protein' leads to illness, yes of course, but I'm eating 2-3 times the protein I actually need daily, its almost impossible to avoid the stuff, you certainly don't need meat!
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Good for you that there are still sources of food in the Vegan diet that you agree with. But not everyone else is lucky enough and can tolerate that as I've said above, and in those cases, meat is essential to having a "normal" life.
 
Just watched this, found it very interesting. I'm not far of 40 now, dont know where the time has gone tbh but my health is definitely something I want to start focusing on a bit more, and although I'm still quite active, my diet isn't the best! Am I going to give up eating meat completely? Absolutely not. I do however, feel I need to cut down on how often I eat meat.
 
e36Adz said:
Just watched this, found it very interesting. I'm not far of 40 now, dont know where the time has gone tbh but my health is definitely something I want to start focusing on a bit more, and although I'm still quite active, my diet isn't the best! Am I going to give up eating meat completely? Absolutely not. I do however, feel I need to cut down on how often I eat meat.
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why do you feel the need to cut down on your meat consumption?
 
The biggest issue I find with vegans is that they seem to compare vegans who by being vegan would obviously have a much healthier lifestyle and diet than an average meat eater who has a terrible lifestyle and diet and come to the conclusion that being vegan is better for you.
 
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e36Adz said:
Because I eat it way too often and I eat out way too much as well! Love my food, thankfully though it doesn't really show. Just over 12 st, 6ft tall.
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That appears to be an argument for cutting down on food consumption. Why do you want to eat less meat specifically?
 
If I cut down on the amount of meat I eat I'll naturally be cutting down on the amount of food I'm eating. A huge part of my diet and infact asian (specifically Pakistani) people in general is meat (and sugary sweet dishes) appalling diets and as a consequence many health issues. I see it all around me, family, friends etc.
 
Okay... so still looking for why your cutting meat out specifically, it looks like you're saying 'meat = appalling diet'? Seems an odd one to me?
 
FoxEye said:
The other angle is that current global meat production is already having a terrible effect on the planet, and with more people and more meat production it's going to destroy many ecosystems and cause many extinctions.

We should cut back for that reason alone - unless the only animals we want to survive are cows, pigs and chickens.
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The current global human baby production is having a far bigger effect. Presume you’ve vowed not to have kids? Assuming you actually care that much that is.

Out of interest, are you a vegan?

The film is unlikely to provide any more information that all the other research out there. Eating less meat is healthier for us. Eating no meat? Can be, but requires a lot more effort to replace the proteins missing in meat, hence why a lot of vegans are less healthy than omnivores that put a similar effort into their diet.

(full disclosure. Never been interested in “docufilms”. The data could be easier and better represented in words and print).
 
Amp34 said:
The film is unlikely to provide any more information that all the other research out there. Eating less meat is healthier for us. Eating no meat? Can be, but requires a lot more effort to replace the proteins missing in meat, hence why a lot of vegans are less healthy than omnivores that put a similar effort into their diet.
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But it's 2019, at no point in our current timeline has it been hard or difficult to get the necessary nutrition on a veggie diet.
But if were looking at health overall then there are more pressing issues to be concerned about for the general population and the worrying trends of overeating.
 
I watched this at the weekend. It was too deliberately misleading to be taken as a serious documentary although it was well shot and entertaining.

My biggest beef (har har) is it implied meat is bad, vegan is good. If those NFL players replaced their fried chicken with fried tofu and that's it I'd say it's unlikely their performance/health would improve. If they replaced fried chicken with grilled chicken breast and changed the rest of their diet to include decent veg etc I'd put money on them seeing the same positive results.

What this documentary should be about is the lifestyle change that can accompany veganism and how this can improve your life. Instead it came across as a propaganda piece aimed at meat eaters.
 
ShortWarning said:
I watched this at the weekend. It was too deliberately misleading to be taken as a serious documentary although it was well shot and entertaining.

My biggest beef (har har) is it implied meat is bad, vegan is good. If those NFL players replaced their fried chicken with fried tofu and that's it I'd say it's unlikely their performance/health would improve. If they replaced fried chicken with grilled chicken breast and changed the rest of their diet to include decent veg etc I'd put money on them seeing the same positive results.

What this documentary should be about is the lifestyle change that can accompany veganism and how this can improve your life. Instead it came across as a propaganda piece aimed at meat eaters.
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This is the big problem. Is the average vegan healthier than the average meat eater? Obviously yes because the vegan has made a conscious choice to eat better and probably has a better lifestyle than the average meat eater who has a terrible diet and lifestyle (burgers, fried food, couch potato etc). The question you have to ask is is a vegan healthier than me who eats the same as a vegan PLUS also adds some fish, beef and eggs and a healthier lifestyle? Im confident the answer is no.
 
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