The Game Changers - Cameron, Schwarzenegger, Chan

Combat squirrel said:
Right ocuk iv just watched it all start to finish.

All I can say is this film is essential viewing, for your life, every petty daft comment iv read about us apparently being omnivorous or 'needing' meat is scientifically destroyed, the doc even sites all the information sources as it presents the information. It shows proper scientific tests of meat vs plant eaters measured correctly - meat eating ruins athletes - the doc addresses and brilliantly and factually removes any comments about being pro meat.

I completely understand people will argue based on their opinion, but that's irrelevant now, people can spout off their opinion on a forum all they like it won't change facts.

For the sake of your life and your families life this thing is essential viewing.

10/10 because it will immeasurably help people.

Those that choose to shun it do so with baffling ignorance.

Go on ocuk I DARE you to watch it.
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10/10 review, would read again :D
 
Hotwired said:
You know what, there's a website which is free to read.

The principle of eating more vegetables is fine and that appears to be its bottom line even to the point of promoting no animal products at all.

However I greatly doubt eating a healthy diet which includes meat is significantly worse than vegetables forever.

People stuffing themselves and eating unbalanced diets is far more of a health crime to me.
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Well as per the peer reviewed scientific papers, there appears to be literally no benefit to eating meat at all - only a much longer list of cons - not even B12 comes from meat I was surprised to find! It comes from gut bacteria found in soil/river water - the only reason it ends up in meat is animals eat or drink off the ground, and store the b12 in their bodies, which some humans then eat......... our ultra clean water systems caused a b12 deficit in humans.
 
FoxEye said:
The other angle is that current global meat production is already having a terrible effect on the planet, and with more people and more meat production it's going to destroy many ecosystems and cause many extinctions.

We should cut back for that reason alone - unless the only animals we want to survive are cows, pigs and chickens.
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Meat isn't the issue. It's the mass farming that is an issue however that isn't only a meat problem. The solution is to eat sustainable sourced meat AND fruit/Veg. I'm guilty of using a supermarket for my meat simply due to convenience but I am aware that I should be going to local butchers/farmers for that.

All good and well saying "vegan diet protects the world" whilst ignoring the massive carbon footprint involved with transporting your fancy quinoa and avocados from South America. Hell, even the local farmers who grew avocados for their own are unable to afford them now cause all the healthy trends make it too expensive for them. That's also ignoring how much land needs to be stripped back from farming - taking away habitats for native wildlife.

the farming industry does have an effect on the world and they do need to look at what they can reduce but lets not pretend that Veganism is the way forward to save the planet (unless you're only eating and growing seasonal veg in your garden) You need a hell of a lot more space to grow enough produce with the same nutritional benefit of meat.

So in short, if you really cared about the planet you'd only eat what can be found/sourced locally. I expect most the ones shouting the loudest wont do that though. They need their super-foods imported from all over the world.
 
JunglistE said:
Meat isn't the issue. It's the mass farming that is an issue however that isn't only a meat problem. The solution is to eat sustainable sourced meat AND fruit/Veg. I'm guilty of using a supermarket for my meat simply due to convenience but I am aware that I should be going to local butchers/farmers for that.

All good and well saying "vegan diet protects the world" whilst ignoring the massive carbon footprint involved with transporting your fancy quinoa and avocados from South America. Hell, even the local farmers who grew avocados for their own are unable to afford them now cause all the healthy trends make it too expensive for them. That's also ignoring how much land needs to be stripped back from farming - taking away habitats for native wildlife.

the farming industry does have an effect on the world and they do need to look at what they can reduce but lets not pretend that Veganism is the way forward to save the planet (unless you're only eating and growing seasonal veg in your garden) You need a hell of a lot more space to grow enough produce with the same nutritional benefit of meat.

So in short, if you really cared about the planet you'd only eat what can be found/sourced locally. I expect most the ones shouting the loudest wont do that though. They need their super-foods imported from all over the world.
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You need to watch the documentary - they have factual information about your points about farming there - in short, nearly the whole planet feeds livestock - remove the meat and all of a sudden we have left over spare space to grow everything to feed everyone, the carbon footprint to transport food is a fraction of 1 % of what farming on that scale does.

Anyways, watch the show - it answers your points, also as you say, just buy local veg, issue solved.
 
Combat squirrel said:
You need to watch the documentary - they have factual information about your points about farming there - in short, nearly the whole planet feeds livestock - remove the meat and all of a sudden we have left over spare space to grow everything to feed everyone, the carbon footprint to transport food is a fraction of 1 % of what farming on that scale does.

Anyways, watch the show - it answers your points, also as you say, just buy local veg, issue solved.
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I'll watch it if it ever hits Netflix but I'm not gonna pay to watch some vegan propaganda. A balanced diet is the healthiest way to go for the majority of people we are not supposed to just live off vegetables.
Even herbivores are opportunistic hunters. Meat is good for you now as it has been for the last few thousand years that Homo's have walked the earth. We need to tackle the wider problem of over farming and wasting food. That's the real problem.

Until I see these Vegans live off locally sourced produce - as in the only vegetables that grow in the UK (or wherever else they are based) complaining about meat consumption is a moot point. We evolved to eat meat and we are hunters as a species. We have characteristics common with carnivores as well as herbivores because we are dead in the middle. We are omnivores. That much is a fact.

While we can survive, and maybe even thrive on a vegan diet (assuming you have the money - for all the fancy veg you need or maybe a dietitian to put together a nice plan) , doesn't mean it's the right thing to do for everyone.

Thousands upon thousands of years eating a mixed diet and now people decide we only need veg. Just eating meat/being able to digest animal milk has even won some wars in the past.
 
ttaskmaster said:
If we can survive, why do so many veggies and vegans take supplements?
"Yep, you can get everything you need from a vegan diet. I'm just taking B12, calcium, iron, and zinc because I like the flavour"...
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I fully agree with you! If it was that healthy you wouldn’t need supplements. As all your saying is “my chosen diet doesn’t actually give me all the vitamins I require so I take these man made tablets”.

Super healthy!

anyone who says that the extreme vegans go to is better than a balanced diet is genuinely crazy in my eyes. But I suppose at least you get to try and appear holier than thou cause you didn’t eat a bit of meat.

Our ancestors went though all the hassle hunting and eating meat which made our brains grow to get to where we are today and now everyone wants to graze on grass.
 
I'm more concerned about myself and my ilk. I have G6PD and many plants are being planted along with Soya or modified/fortified with Soya (to which in large enough doses can kill me slowly as I am unfortunate enough to be susceptible to it as is my mother - who needs even less to be adversely affected). It also means certain suppliments I can't take in tablet form because they carry other stuff I can't take.

From this video, does it answer how am I and those like me (like my mother) are supposed to survive on this ideological non-Meat world? And I doubt that I and my mother are the only one around like this. So an answer to that would be ideal before I even contemplate converting. Hint, there's around 400 million of us G6PD'ers, although we do only get affected in various levels. So it's not set in stone how we are affected, just that we are affected.

Awating the good news so I can stop my meat eating ways.
 
Personally I’m more inclined to a pescatarian diet. I like dairy and fish too much, but couldn’t careless about meat.

I’m not convinced a plant based diet is any better than a pescatarian diet.
 
I think the comments coming from a great many people are similar to a conversation I just had with a friend.

He was talking about how the entire of Russia is currently mocking Greta about her environmental campaigns.

I mentioned I face a similar problem talking about a plant based diet - the point being anytime some new information comes to light, even if that info is fact based, and is backed by observation & scientific testing, the real issue is convincing people of the truth, because the truth is often inconvenient to them or a group of people.

On a massive scale, Greta is talking total sense - but that's very inconvenient to the Russians way of life, indeed most of their entire economy depends on it, so they will ignore facts and try their best to ridicule her.

On a personal micro scale - my own life journey I have discovered that indeed the main contributer to the two main western diseases heart attacks and cancer is meat products or animal products, being on an equal footing with an inactive life style. Sure you can run marathons like no bodies business, but it will not offset a high animal product diet - its not just the meat your eating in short.

However my main point of this post is (relating to the topic) - how do you convince people of factual information ?

The main issue of our times is this very problem - perhaps it deserves its own thread - people find it so very very easy to dismiss others views swiftly, because they don't agree with it - yet facts stand, regardless of opinion.

Its very easy in some ways to find the truth, you can have scientific studies, but you need to look at who funds them, pro meat clients or pro vegan clients........after 1000s of peer reviewed papers, somewhere somehow the truth begins to slowly emerge - however truth is, often highly annoying to a great many people.

How do we as a people address this problem? Meat eating, Greta, brexit, all of these issues to solve, all revolve around - what really is the truth ? How do we protect fact from political/human meddling ?
 
Combat squirrel said:
the real issue is convincing people of the truth, because the truth is often inconvenient to them or a group of people.
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You keep saying "fact" instead of "opinion" -

Food

One set of "experts" say X is true and another set of equally believable "experts" say X is false so why should we listen to you state "as fact" that you and your experts are right and everyone else and their experts are wrong? What proof do we uneducated plebs have that the highly technical scientific data that the scientists present is accurate when no "impartial" body is agreeing with one side or the other and the research the other experts provide refutes the previous experts claims as the pendulum swings the argument each way?

Greta

The Russian aren't ignoring facts, everyone agrees that some form of Climate Change is real, even the Russians. The problem the Russians and most of the West have is not with Greta's warnings (we've known about it for the past 45 years), but instead it's all to do with Greta's "Solutions" which most agree are horrifying, de-industrialising the West (which is massively reducing already it's emissions, US is down 10%) back to living life like a 1700's mud farmer whilst China (the biggest polluter and increasing rapidly since 2011) and India (the second fastest riser since 2011 and 3rd worst polluter), who she never talks about in her "Solution" BTW, kill the world with pollutants without being checked by the now de-industrialised West.
 
Why are vegetarians always so pushy?

It's not going to kill me to eat a little meat and I enjoy it. Each to their own.
 
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