The "if you don't look 21" rule
- Thread starter phill
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I currently work in an alcohol shop(though just 1 day per week) and I must admit that it took me a while work out the system of when,why, how to deal with potential underaged and then I still find it quite tricky.
Why the under 21 rule? Well lets see what happens without it. When I first started work, I had it in my mind that what I have to do is beware not to serve alcohol to someone under 18. Thats the case anyway but if someone comes over that looks suspicious and hasnt got an ID, and you tell him "well,you dont look 18+ to me", there will be a great chance that things would end up in a 20 min pointless arguing with him/her trying to convince me otherwise. In that way, they basically accept it as it all depends on me and Im trying to be an arse towards them. I must point out here that women are worse and I will tell you why(not to be accused of being a sexist)...1) their nowadays overuse of make-up makes it a complete mystery to guess their age, not to mention that certain few refuse to disclose it...2) the kind of young women going for alcohol all the time are more likely to start arguing than men.
So here is how we benefit from the under 21 rule. Its a rather subtle thing but the rule allows us(the sales assistants) to change our awareness from looking whether people are 18+ to looking if they are 21+. This is way safer than 18 because even if you fail to judge someone correctly, you would, in 99% of the cases, fall within the 18-21 range which is still ok. Argumentwise, if someone goes for "Im not 21 yet but Im definitely 18"(without being able to prove it), I can always go "Im sorry but BY LAW I am entitled to refuse to serve you since you DO NOT LOOK like being 21 or more". The words with capital letters simply work wonders against people ready to stay there and argue.
I particularly find funny, the people that come up with "if you dont serve me here,I will go elsewhere" or "Pls serve me! I wont tell anyone!". From what I have seen, only about 1-2 people out of 10 would try to argue/negotiate and they truly are over 18. They would be the ones to quickly go back home to get ID etc, the rest are really under 18 and are aware that they got no option but to try their luck and their actual lack of respect towards the law ,and thinking that I would break it for them, truly reveals their (at least mental) age. Most adults show they deserve their age by happily taking an ID out of their wallet, knowing what sort of risk is placed on you if you fail. So ladies and gents, whoever deals with such kind of job, ID the kiddies to their bones and feel no regret!
ps - didnt mention the ciggies cauz the 21 rule applies there too while you only gotta be careful for people who are less than 16.
Why the under 21 rule? Well lets see what happens without it. When I first started work, I had it in my mind that what I have to do is beware not to serve alcohol to someone under 18. Thats the case anyway but if someone comes over that looks suspicious and hasnt got an ID, and you tell him "well,you dont look 18+ to me", there will be a great chance that things would end up in a 20 min pointless arguing with him/her trying to convince me otherwise. In that way, they basically accept it as it all depends on me and Im trying to be an arse towards them. I must point out here that women are worse and I will tell you why(not to be accused of being a sexist)...1) their nowadays overuse of make-up makes it a complete mystery to guess their age, not to mention that certain few refuse to disclose it...2) the kind of young women going for alcohol all the time are more likely to start arguing than men.
So here is how we benefit from the under 21 rule. Its a rather subtle thing but the rule allows us(the sales assistants) to change our awareness from looking whether people are 18+ to looking if they are 21+. This is way safer than 18 because even if you fail to judge someone correctly, you would, in 99% of the cases, fall within the 18-21 range which is still ok. Argumentwise, if someone goes for "Im not 21 yet but Im definitely 18"(without being able to prove it), I can always go "Im sorry but BY LAW I am entitled to refuse to serve you since you DO NOT LOOK like being 21 or more". The words with capital letters simply work wonders against people ready to stay there and argue.
I particularly find funny, the people that come up with "if you dont serve me here,I will go elsewhere" or "Pls serve me! I wont tell anyone!". From what I have seen, only about 1-2 people out of 10 would try to argue/negotiate and they truly are over 18. They would be the ones to quickly go back home to get ID etc, the rest are really under 18 and are aware that they got no option but to try their luck and their actual lack of respect towards the law ,and thinking that I would break it for them, truly reveals their (at least mental) age. Most adults show they deserve their age by happily taking an ID out of their wallet, knowing what sort of risk is placed on you if you fail. So ladies and gents, whoever deals with such kind of job, ID the kiddies to their bones and feel no regret!
ps - didnt mention the ciggies cauz the 21 rule applies there too while you only gotta be careful for people who are less than 16.
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its a perfectly fine 'rule' and when your on the other side of the counter, or door, then you'll understand it. You dont need to worry yourself over but but remember, it does save a lot of potential problems with somthing like the 'over 21' rule. You dont look >21 and you dont have id, you dont get in. its simple, it works and lets face it - most 15 years old dress like their 19 these days. Thats what its there for.
If you ask me, rules arent enforced nearly enough. yeah i am over 21, but ive held the same opinion even before i was of legal drinking age.
If you ask me, rules arent enforced nearly enough. yeah i am over 21, but ive held the same opinion even before i was of legal drinking age.
G|mp said:Its a great idea stops the damn young fools annoying me in the pub
We should get a national campaign going
. Dam kids knocked my pint out of my hand and nearly me over in Yates a couple of weeks back. They even tried to walk off without buying me another pint 
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Violent-J said:
I think you're in the minority
Yes i would like the age range raised to 21 or at least enforced at 18. Can't stand when the bar lets 15 y/os in just to get their money.
It's my sanctury from the kids and spotty chav preteens in there!
It is frustrating when you 17 and most of your 18 year old friends can go drinking and your no different to them but a few months.
Atleast where i work i have to ask if i can sell alcohol everytime and even if theres someone who is 90 standing there they always think im double checking if there above 18 which is really funny.
Atleast where i work i have to ask if i can sell alcohol everytime and even if theres someone who is 90 standing there they always think im double checking if there above 18 which is really funny.
i see what your saying. i work in a bar and people do get annoyed about this but the problem is that i know the doorman lets people who are underage in (all girls) as he wants to get in their pants. basically i don't trust the doorman to do his job so i cover myself as well, sucks but that's life.PinkFloyd said:
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crystaline said:I think you're in the minority
Yes i would like the age range raised to 21 or at least enforced at 18. Can't stand when the bar lets 15 y/os in just to get their money.
It's my sanctury from the kids and spotty chav preteens in there!
Isnt it 21 where you are anyway
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toy_soldier said:Isnt it 21 where you are anyway
yeh but ive only been here for a few months. dont go out to bars here very often, not the same as British pubs
I was also told whilst working at the off-licence, that they were having problems with people around the age of 18-21 buying alcohol for minors, part of the compaign in off-licences was targetted towards this, as most people over 21 have a bit more sense and wouldnt want to risk buying alcohol for minors, as if there caught, they can face a £90 fine and being put on pubwatch.
Dont know who else has pubwatch around there areas, but it can work wonders to keep trouble makers out of pubs, had one person in out area who was on pubwatch, but repeadtly went into pubs e knew he wasnt allowed in, cctv footage was used in court to have an asbo placed on him, and now he cant even go near the town centre, and has been added to all the other pubwatch lists in several other towns surrounding where he lived. Safe to say he was pretty ****** off with the results lol
Dont know who else has pubwatch around there areas, but it can work wonders to keep trouble makers out of pubs, had one person in out area who was on pubwatch, but repeadtly went into pubs e knew he wasnt allowed in, cctv footage was used in court to have an asbo placed on him, and now he cant even go near the town centre, and has been added to all the other pubwatch lists in several other towns surrounding where he lived. Safe to say he was pretty ****** off with the results lol
wolvotim said:We should get a national campaign going
Why would you wanna drink in Yates's anyway?
G|mp said:
I went into Yate's once, I looked around and I realised I wasnt wearing a pink shirt or poloshirt so was therefor going to get no attention from any girls, or anyone for that matter, took bout 10 minutes to get served, this is whilst there were 5 bar staff working lol
No this was in banbury, actually knew 2 of the staff but that still didnt help, popped in a few weeks ago to see my ex, and found the place has been invaded by emo's they must have kept one in the back and its spread... 
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This sounds complete BS but I was about 32 when I had the confidence to walk up to a bar and buy my coke and the wife half a lager. I was always asked my age and I found it easier to send the wife for drinks.