The Indoor Riding/ Zwift/ TrainerRoad etc. Thread

[wonko]

Yep, seen that. Looks like the new Aeroad is the best all round on there to me, depending on wheel set up. Although very few courses are like the Alpe or Tempus. I still feel an aero set up is going to be better for most people but it would depend on the rider. I haven't raced for a while but I'm top end of Cat C, big power outputs but higher than average bodyweight so in my mind anything with over 500m elevation I'd be best with more of a climbing set up as keeping up with the front pack on the flats isn't an issue for me.

It's the same for me - if I'm going to get dropped it will most likely be on a hill. I rarely bother swapping bikes though and just use the tron as a good default.

The zwift insider tests are great but they are baselined by a 75kg rider at a constant 300w. This means that if you aren't putting out 4wkg for the entire race (which I'd assume most of us aren't) then the margin between the frames is more than ZI say.

My guess is if drafting in a group then I'd struggle to notice the difference between bikes on the flat, and that the differences get more obvious when climbing where W/kg matter and there's less draft as groups tend to spread out.
It would be interesting to see if/how the ZI results change at different weights and power. Gut feel is that at a lower power, there would be less difference on the flat (less speed giving less differences from an aero setup) but that there would be more (time) difference on the climbs.

The tron is coming out top for me on most of the routes I like to race on (sub 30km), some by more than a second. I'm usually beaten by less than that so maybe I should start using one! Should still get rid of it though, although I'm sure someone will come along shortly and be upset at that.

But the Tron goes so well with my Union Flag bucket hat!

 

[grudas]

FTP is a bit like BMI where people love to endlessly debate how accurate it is and how its obviously complete junk because a small fraction of people are misrepresented by it. Fundamentally I have found that if I do the Zwift ramp test, all the other workouts that are based off the FTP that it gives you are in the right ballpark for the stress they are trying to achieve.

that's exactly what I wanted to make sure, that my FTP is at least in the right area as far as zwift cares, now that it is set I'll just leave it sitting there and maybe re-try in a few weeks if I can stay consistent.

The figure given by the ramp test should have automatically been placed in your settings.

Your actual ability may be higher right now, but because you are new to using a turbo indoors, you aren't acclimatised to the heat and lack of air movement compared to outdoors. Consequently, your heart rate for a given power output towards the threshold end of the scale, will be higher compared to outdoors.

With some regular workouts at approx zone 4+ and/or races, with a decent fan or two and a bidon or two of liquid per session, you should find you will acclimatise within a month.

yeah I just checked and it was, so that's all sorted and in place.

that's good to know, will be interesting to see what my performance is like in a few weeks.

I've been enjoying it, not saying it isn't painful but as far as training at home goes, this is quite good.

 

[Roady]

FRR starts again today, anyone in? Treating it as a boost from some volume rather than being able to race/compete or even ride every stage.

Tour Schedule – Flamme Rouge Racing

flammerougeracing.co.uk

My fitness has taken a dive over the last 6 months, starting with a few injury niggles and then several periods away from the house and trainer. Power and stamina feel way down on what they were, and reflected in falling back to Cat B and FTP/VO2max plummetting. It's so frustrating how quickly you lose it and how long it takes to build it up again (or maybe that's an age thing?).

Yup, it's such a fight... Really suffering at the moment, while struggling to get 'on the up'. Many of my races/TTT's towards 100 TSS for an hour, yet not really seeing power gains the last month or two (building back after layoff/recovery end of June). But I know I'm riding well, just seem to be a little plateaued when riding this hard would normally boost me.

I am generally putting out about 60-70W more than most people finishing near me, and they all appear to have very similar weights (+/- 5kg or so). The guy who won averaged 90W less than me! Is it just making the most of being in the bunch and being as efficient as possible?

Yep. The amount of TTT'ing I do - generally leading from the rear, along with any group riding I'll generally be sweeping I've become pretty darn good at drafting... I'll regularly be one of the lowest averages in a TTT - check any of them: https://zwiftpower.com/profile.php?z=52661

Even as a C in a B race can place ok - 27th in ZRL B2 (doing 3.0w/kg when most others are 3.4+). Can be competitive in small Ladder races with lowest avg (tactics and positioning to save power to use where needed against mostly B riders). Or smaller/longer community races means I'm conserving power for where I need it...

'Punch' score on ZP is quite a good measure for this - the 'Variability Index' of races (really a comparison of average power vs NP value, to determine the difference) and really just a measure of punchy style of racing/riding that I do. Bigger peaks (race moves) vs lower averages (recovering/saving watts).

 

[grudas]

anyone else had their wahoo core stickers fly off? the grey arrows just started randomly coming off.. I wondered what the noise was!

 

[Roady]

anyone else had their wahoo core stickers fly off? the grey arrows just started randomly coming off.. I wondered what the noise was!

I've heard of it happen fairly regularly but not experiecned myself, my KICKR v5 hasn't done it...

 

[grudas]

I've heard of it happen fairly regularly but not experiecned myself, my KICKR v5 hasn't done it...

I lost 2 in todays 57minute ride which I guess is the first time it got 'hot'

pulled the rest off too as I bet you, they will fly off

 

[fez]

Just bagged myself a second hand kickr bike V1 with headwind fan for £1300. Standard case of someone spending £3500 on an indoor bike during lockdown and then barely using it. Guy got injured and its collected dust for the last 2 years. Nice bit of kit and I won't have to faff with taking my fancy new bike on and off and dealing with the indexing being slightly out.

Got the climb mode as well so it tilts for the ups and downs. Just need to stick some narrower bars on it and perhaps my choice of saddle and away we go.

 

[Vandle]

Just bagged myself a second hand kickr bike V1 with headwind fan for £1300. Standard case of someone spending £3500 on an indoor bike during lockdown and then barely using it. Guy got injured and its collected dust for the last 2 years. Nice bit of kit and I won't have to faff with taking my fancy new bike on and off and dealing with the indexing being slightly out.

Got the climb mode as well so it tilts for the ups and downs. Just need to stick some narrower bars on it and perhaps my choice of saddle and away we go.

Don’t forget the custom velo mat too

 

[fez]

Just had the first ride on the kickr bike and its great. Love the feel of it, love not having to faff with taking a wheel off and aligning the thru axle etc. No mess, no wax coming off the chain, no wear on a few cogs when I use ERG for 90% of my workouts. Will try the tilt feature when I give some free ride routes a bash. Just need to get another saddle as the one that came with it isn't so hot.

 

[Vandle]

Just had the first ride on the kickr bike and its great. Love the feel of it, love not having to faff with taking a wheel off and aligning the thru axle etc. No mess, no wax coming off the chain, no wear on a few cogs when I use ERG for 90% of my workouts. Will try the tilt feature when I give some free ride routes a bash. Just need to get another saddle as the one that came with it isn't so hot.

Yep, when I upgraded from an ageing Giant to an all in one system it felt like a huge leap forward. No doubt you'll use it far more too given its so easy to just jump on without having to mess about.

I have the Tacx so not the same however I upgraded my saddle but found a carbon railed one wouldn't fit. Carbon rails in profile are like a squished circle, almost oval. They don't fit on a Tacx as they don't have the same universal clamp like road bikes do. I would assume the thinking behind it is nobody is going to spend money on a carbon saddle for an indoor bike, obviously not thinking some would want to have it set up exactly as their road bike is. Check first before buying one.

 

[fez]

Yep, when I upgraded from an ageing Giant to an all in one system it felt like a huge leap forward. No doubt you'll use it far more too given its so easy to just jump on without having to mess about.

I have the Tacx so not the same however I upgraded my saddle but found a carbon railed one wouldn't fit. Carbon rails in profile are like a squished circle, almost oval. They don't fit on a Tacx as they don't have the same universal clamp like road bikes do. I would assume the thinking behind it is nobody is going to spend money on a carbon saddle for an indoor bike, obviously not thinking some would want to have it set up exactly as their road bike is. Check first before buying one.

Yeah, I have a oval saddle rails on my normal bikes saddle but the model comes in 3 different materials so I can pick up the cheapest one regardless. The clamps on the Kickr bike are universal though. Not quite sure why some brands do clamps that pinch rails from the side. Well I do, it makes fitting the saddle so so so much easier than the vertical ones ( I have one on the specialized crux).

So far I think you are right, it will lead to more Zwifting and I can see why these are expensive but £3k+ is still silly money at full RRP.

Once I am back from holiday I need to get another seatpost and saddle so that my partner can use it as well. That was one of the main considerations for getting the bike. Seatpost swap, reach in and shes good to go.

One more things thats nice on the kickr bike is that it spins up for you so you don't have to do as much work if you stop peddling for a while or get off the bike to go for a wee.

 

[#Chri5#]

Zwift racing score is going to kick my ass. I was a Cat C and could generally hang round the front of a race. My ZRS is 355, so on the default bandings I get stuck in the 350 to 520 group, which looks to be top end Cs and lower Bs.

Anyone got any EPO going spare?

 

[UTmaniac]

Zwift racing score is going to kick my ass. I was a Cat C and could generally hang round the front of a race. My ZRS is 355, so on the default bandings I get stuck in the 350 to 520 group, which looks to be top end Cs and lower Bs.

Anyone got any EPO going spare?

With a poor result or two, you could drop 15% under your rolling power seed score and end up in the same pen as me in D, as I'm scored ~266. The range of ability in pens D and E is huge compared to the old system, where I was a Category Enforcement D, not helped by the new system placing returning riders in the low pens after a summer break.

 

[PikeyPriest]

Racing score now gone up to 606 from 440. I did one race and finished 3rd and then did a PB 30s sprint at the end of a zone 2 group ride (855W for 30s). I’ll never be able to do this in a race though, but apparently the 30s power is important for racing score ranking. Probably shot myself in the foot doing a max interval effort. The upper end of the category has low A riders in it so I’m screwed.

 

[UTmaniac]

Racing score now gone up to 606 from 440. I did one race and finished 3rd and then did a PB 30s sprint at the end of a zone 2 group ride (855W for 30s). I’ll never be able to do this in a race though, but apparently the 30s power is important for racing score ranking. Probably shot myself in the foot doing a max interval effort. The upper end of the category has low A riders in it so I’m screwed.

Standard range is currently 520-690 for pen B, the scaling of 30sec pure Watts into Racing Score seed hasn't been figured out yet, but you might have been a B racer anyway.

You could test this by setting up an alternative account and do a realistic 30sec and 10min race effort, to see what your score would be.

 

[Vandle]

Tour of Watopia started today. Just did the first one, long. Squeezed in under 61 minutes and PB'd the radio tower by 25 seconds. Some guy did it in 3:55
40xp per km.

 

[Syla5]

Racing score now gone up to 606 from 440. I did one race and finished 3rd and then did a PB 30s sprint at the end of a zone 2 group ride (855W for 30s). I’ll never be able to do this in a race though, but apparently the 30s power is important for racing score ranking. Probably shot myself in the foot doing a max interval effort. The upper end of the category has low A riders in it so I’m screwed.

My seed score was 535 because i had spent most of the previous 3 weeks of my training doing z2 with 30 second sprints chasing jerseys or i did VO2 max intervals, i really screwed myself because im still new to cycling, i have an FTP of 226 - 3w/kg which in old cats was cat C, even then only just, when looking at my other metrics that zwift used for cat sorting, i only actually triggered 1 of them to get in to cat C, so really im closer to being Cat D, yet my ZRS has be facing off against cat B riders, even the occasional A, whos seed scores have yet to stablise.

Standard range is currently 520-690 for pen B, the scaling of 30sec pure Watts into Racing Score seed hasn't been figured out yet, but you might have been a B racer anyway.

You could test this by setting up an alternative account and do a realistic 30sec and 10min race effort, to see what your score would be.

Based on my experience, the 30s weighting is far to high, given its my only strength, and is heavily influenced by the fact ive weight lifted for years, i have no actual long duration sustain, yet my ZRS seed score is 535, effectively way above my ability. Im joining races currently putting in close to my all time best efforts, to come 20/23 or worse. Soon i will drop back in to the old cat C range.

 

[Roady]

Zwift racing score is going to kick my ass. I was a Cat C and could generally hang round the front of a race. My ZRS is 355, so on the default bandings I get stuck in the 350 to 520 group, which looks to be top end Cs and lower Bs.

Things will stabilise, just have to consider that and keep riding... But I always felt like the move to CE we never got to the point of it really working out. Which was quite annoying for a while, but I guess that means as we've changed again now quite quickly I shouldn't be too annoyed.

Hell I'm a C now and enjoying it - the level in C now is higher than last time I was here... I'm doing better numbers, the racing is tougher and harder, really do not feel like I'm sandbagging like last time! Actually dropped myself out of my ZRL team (although still captain) as a friend in a C team got promoted to B, so we switched position. I've been a workhorse there in the TTT (my main thing I ride), contributing to the Team win on the first Scratch race with a 4th, then annoying had a zwift/bug technical last week for the points race and didn't make it in (as a punchy climber really would have suited me)... So had a point to prove on the Scratch race this week... Only went and won it! Somehow a 4.1w/kg for 5 mins still didn't get me a B promotion!

Only times I've 'won' Zwift races the last few weeks for many years. At least where I felt like I had decent competition. That ZRL win is probably my 'best' result since from before pre-covid. Maybe even my best 'ever'!?

Haydn 'Roady' Jones (R3R/EVO)

(52661) Haydn 'Roady' Jones (R3R/EVO) Rider Dashboard

www.zwiftracing.app

ZwiftPower - Login

Zwift race results and statistics.

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TTT's and ZRL are excluded from vELO points and I've always moaned about it... Some of the longer other races I do (FRR/Epic) also excluded so my vELO race ranking (1255) really doesn't change much (or probably reflect my abilities). It will be interesting to see what happens with Racing score. I'm at 463 now after ZRL where I scored a mid-pack finish in a B2 race, then came 4th & 1st in 2 C1 races. It still hasn't moved much!

But that puts me in the '3rd' group around the higher-middle (350-520) which I guess is high C? Somewhere near right, I'm not very often doing near 3.5 for 20/min.

 

[AndyCr15]

Oops, wrong cycling thread!

 

[#Chri5#]

Having been away for a few weekends recently and thus missed what is my longest ride of the week, I completely over estimated my endurance base on Sunday. I picked the Vikings Sunday Skaal ride and thought the 2.3 to 2.7 w/kg pace would be okay for 100km. In hindsight, perhaps not.

My legs and glutes were cooked by the time we got to around 75 to 80km. I was very grateful to the sweepers as I slowly slipped off the back of the pack going through Neokyo and they managed to drag me back up . By the time I climbed off, I was ready for a kip and it wasn't even lunchtime.

ZwiftPower - Login

Zwift race results and statistics.

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Oh, here's a question. At the bottom of the rider list on the right hand side of the screen, Zwift will say "+20 in group". That value doesn't seem to change (especially during a race), so what group is it actually referring to?