The Indoor Riding/ Zwift/ TrainerRoad etc. Thread

[Roady]

I have an old desktop PC I could use for Zwift. I think it might be better for graphics as I get some FPS slow down when it’s busy on screen.

My laptop is a 2011 HP Pavillion DV6 with an i7, 8gb ram, 5400rpm drive and a mobile Radeon.

The PC is a 2011 custom build, i5 overclocked to 3.2ghz, 4gb, Gainward GTX 280 golden sample, pair of 7200 drives.

Thinking if I stuck two more 2gb sticks in the PC (£35 online) a small SSD and fresh windows install then it should wee all over the laptop as the GPU should be way better? Not really paid any attention to computer stuff the last few years so input appreciated.

You won't find much difference with 4gb RAM to 8gb, Zwift isn't really RAM intensive providing you have an SSD (avoiding pagefile swapping). My laptop is a quad core i5 4200U (1.6-2.6ghtz) with 4GB and doesn't slow down/have pagefile issues. NVIDIA Gefore 740M 2gb in mine is more than enough to run max settings. I guess what I'm trying to say is your laptop slowdown is possibly the Radeon GPU if you have the details cranked up, if not it's more likely HDD speed related. I noticed a huge difference going from a 5400rpm mechanical to an SSD in mine, mainly the load times. We're talking multiple minutes (sometimes 8-10!) down to less than 2.

I'm hovering over buying a kickr from wiggle at £800
I think it's for the 2016 model. I'll quickly have a look at the 2017 model differences.

2017 Differences as mentioned, but also has more clearance for disc brake models/frames with thru axles.

Cosmetically V1 has the 'integrated' black handle on the rear so when you lift it, it swings and can bash you in the shins/ankles. V2 has the larger longer grey handle coming from the side of the flywheel. V3 is the same as V2 handle wise, but the unit next to the cassette (and I guess the other side) where the frame mounts has cutouts for more thru axle and disc clearances.

I am a bit puzzled by the classes, A, B, C etc.... Most races state you should enter as in A if your W/kg > 4. I'm about 4.5 at the moment, but I can imagine getting my ass handed to me if I enter an A group!
Is this so?

Your 4.5 on the road might not directly translate, it really depends on weight more when on Zwift than when outside. The drag effect (heavy rider) for those behind is much more pronounced than for a lighter rider with the heavier slowdown on inclines more reduced than outside. It's only really the longer climbs that my heavier (75kg) weight impacts me on Zwift. The draft effect on Zwift is HUGE. Holding a wheel is like a +100-200W 'boost' = nothing like outside!

The CAT's for races within zwift, consider a 'recommended' level, if you want to be competitive you will need to skirt the upper 'limit' of the CAT without going over and getting DQ. I'm a fairly average CAT B but can place well on the flat races either by breaking away or out sprinting. I'm a good chaser, but stick me on a CAT B hilly ride and I'll get dropped hard due to my weight, yet if I drop to CAT C I can stick with them, but then get DQ because my w/kg is so much higher doing so...

 

[Berger]

Stuck some more ram in the desktop as it was using loads to just run. Cleaned it up and spent an evening battling to get windows 7 to update...

It’s done that so I’ll put zwift on and give it a try, it has two 7200 drives. If I find it’s not great then a small SSD is only £50 so that’s worth a punt. Any more and it’s new computer time I think.

Tonight’s job perhaps!

 

[Roady]

Yeah, with mine it had a 750gb mechanical drive but after upgrading my main PC's SSD from 256gb to 500gb I kinda had a 'spare'. With only a basic windows install (+ office) it hardly requires much space (until the other half fills it up with baby/dog pictures...)

You can get W10 on there if you want, as it'll probably perform quicker. There's a 'workaround' where you can still get the free upgrade by enabling some of the accessibility options. Google it or Trust me if you struggle.

 

[BennyC]

Most races state you should enter as in A if your W/kg > 4. I'm about 4.5 at the moment, but I can imagine getting my ass handed to me if I enter an A group!

Racing vs a Threshold effort are two very different bags! More so IRL and probably a bit less so on Zwift (never raced on Zwift but have IRL). You're at the mercy of the bunch so it tends to be a rather intense over/under affair than it does plodding along at Threshold.

You've nout to lose, I'd probably aim high to save a DQ If your head unit can display your avg w/kg for the session maybe enter a lower category and keep an eye on it. The Elemnt/Bolt is capable but not sure about *spits* Garmin

 

[Shadowness]

ok thanks. I'm surprised Zwift doesn't display your power zone next to the wattage. Bit odd.

I've heard watts on a bike are different from a turbo etc. So I'll be interested to see how they compare.

 

[Berger]

Turbo watts are the same as real watts.

Just a real race is 1000w effort, 0w, soft pedal 150w, 600w effort.

Zwift is a 500w 1 min effort at the start then a steady 300w for example. Pretty much every race is the same with hills being taken 1w/kg higher than the average pace with a sprint finish.

Tested out my second Neo, this one is quieter than the first and the gear tune is better out the box. Seems to run a little hotter but maybe that’s just as it beds in.

Ive got the second machine ready to go, my laptop scores 4/10 on the website posted earlier so not so hot! Average FPS about 30 on medium detail!

 

[BennyC]

Think I ran about 12 fps on my old 2010 MBP, it sufficed!

 

[Berger]

All setup & ready to rock. Zwift has defaulted me to medium graphics setting still. I’ll upload the activity to the website posted above and analyse it afterwards.

What was interesting was it recommended me moving the ant+ stick closer to the trainer as I was getting some losses so I have done that.

Annoyingly I can’t run full screen due to a driver conflict (someone else has the same issue) it makes the screen flicker. Have to run windowed and hide the start menu... latest Nvidia drivers installed...

 

[Roady]

If your head unit can display your avg w/kg for the session maybe enter a lower category and keep an eye on it.

I had a crack at doing this myself on my ELEMNT, there's a w/kg avg per lap which would work (just 'lap' when race starts) but I couldn't get it to start/read, only the 'actual' w/kg. I Enabled the 'KICKR' control screen which is pretty cool, lots of control options even without a KICKR (Vortex user) so using that as it only displays when the trainer is present.

ok thanks. I'm surprised Zwift doesn't display your power zone next to the wattage. Bit odd.

W/kg next to the wattage would be better (rather than all the way over on the rider list) as it's a key metric, maybe even more so than wattage itself.

You really use power zone that much when riding? I tend to look at zone afterwards and have no real need while riding as I 'know' the power levels (numbers) I'm riding at enough to manage myself that way...

Annoyingly I can’t run full screen due to a driver conflict (someone else has the same issue) it makes the screen flicker. Have to run windowed and hide the start menu... latest Nvidia drivers installed...

I have to do this too, but mostly because the old ****** TV I'm using has hidden screen area behind the bezel so I miss a load of the outside without it. Also Zwiftmap.

Zwiftmap is the only 'addon' I've used, anyone played around with many? Could be good to have an average w/kg overlay & solve my issue above!

 

[merlin]

I have around a 3 second delay I think between my trainer and what I see on screen - so drafting is proving rather difficult.

I'm actually going to upgrade my laptop (minimal outlay as it's through a work scheme) over the next week, meantime it looks like lag is a common complaint from other Tacx Vortex users - seems the last firmware version causes some lag. Gee, thanks Tacx. I'm reluctant to roll back - I'll just see if I can minimise the lag a bit with a longer usb lead and a bit more laptop horsepower.

I think I'm going to try a race tonight.

 

[Sgt_Pepper]

Still not tried a race on Zwift yet, feel like I want to improve my ability a lot more first, could do with doing a proper FTP test, at the moment I think I'm around the 2.75w/kg so the very bottom end of C, but that's just from seeing a rough average over an hour, I've never purposefully set out to ride an hour and lay everything down. Maybe I could creep closer toward 3w/kg with a good effort.


On the plus side I did 45 miles on Zwift tonight, one of the new Group Training Rides and then A Pack 2.2w/kg Social ride with an all out jaunt up the Volcano to finish. If it wasn't for Zwift I'd probably just be sat on my backside watching youtube.

 

[randomshenans]

Think I ran about 12 fps on my old 2010 MBP, it sufficed!

9/10? Dammit, what do I need to do to get 10?! I'm going to try my other machine

 

[merlin]

First serious stab at a race tonight:

https://www.strava.com/activities/1233436904

Felt pretty good, put in some efforts to catch some breaks that in all honesty were never going to stick in a million years. Last half a mile or so was tough, dug deep. Entered B cat and held onto that so all in all quite pleased.

 

[Roady]

I have around a 3 second delay I think between my trainer and what I see on screen - so drafting is proving rather difficult.

I'm actually going to upgrade my laptop (minimal outlay as it's through a work scheme) over the next week, meantime it looks like lag is a common complaint from other Tacx Vortex users - seems the last firmware version causes some lag. Gee, thanks Tacx. I'm reluctant to roll back - I'll just see if I can minimise the lag a bit with a longer usb lead and a bit more laptop horsepower.

The lag isn't something I've really struggled with as it's indicative of 'on-wheel' trainers regardless of brand/model. I've never ridden a direct drive.

It can be painful but use it to your advantage - the majority of the time I can outsprint people at the start and up short ramps, while they're ramping up my lag means I'm able to gain some real inertia & speed for when the power curve catches me a second or two later. It'll make you powerful on short climbs/ramps if you have good sprint power (you should coming from your track/circuit/crit style riding), but it does mean longer climbs when things are all grouped up you'll get easily dropped going over the summit/KOM. The lag does also mean you can ramp up a sprint finish, I'll regularly hit a 8-9w/kg initial sprint 'kick' when in reality I'm sprinting at 5-6w/kg and holding the effort. Means I can sprint hard and long, harder and longer than in reality/outside!

Still not tried a race on Zwift yet, feel like I want to improve my ability a lot more first, could do with doing a proper FTP test, at the moment I think I'm around the 2.75w/kg so the very bottom end of C, but that's just from seeing a rough average over an hour, I've never purposefully set out to ride an hour and lay everything down. Maybe I could creep closer toward 3w/kg with a good effort.

You don't need to improve if you're able to hold that effort/power for ~5-10 mins and recover. Racing is easier than an FTP test, it's more like intervals. I was stronger before and still CAT B, I'll struggle to hold a 4.2w/kg 15/20 minute effort recently but I still find myself mixing it well in CAT B. Just now I'm usually mid-field and not mixing it at the front! Can still get good results!

9/10? Dammit, what do I need to do to get 10?! I'm going to try my other machine

Monster PC and still not 10/10! Which benchmark lets you down?

First serious stab at a race tonight:

https://www.strava.com/activities/1233436904

Felt pretty good, put in some efforts to catch some breaks that in all honesty were never going to stick in a million years. Last half a mile or so was tough, dug deep. Entered B cat and held onto that so all in all quite pleased.

https://www.zwiftpower.com/race.php?id=13378

13th in your first real CAT B race is a damn good result. Hard to tell by finish times but looks a strong group up front with things just splintered behind with no real chase group. Always a tough chase when things are broken like that as you're mostly working too hard with very little respite/drafting!

 

[randomshenans]

God knows, it's not saying. I'll try my Ryzen 1700X/RX580 tonight and see if that nets me a 10.

 

[merlin]

https://www.zwiftpower.com/race.php?id=13378

13th in your first real CAT B race is a damn good result. Hard to tell by finish times but looks a strong group up front with things just splintered behind with no real chase group. Always a tough chase when things are broken like that as you're mostly working too hard with very little respite/drafting!

Thanks for the comments Roady.

Very pleased, especially as I held 240w for 55 mins which firms up that my FTP20 at 240w was spot on.

I'm pleased I didn't try to hang in with the lead group - too strong for me, I'd have got spat out for sure.

 

[Hank_Marvin]

Got a tacx flow from halfords last week, first one was on the skew out of the box but next one sat on the floor fine.

Really good bit of kit so far, done a little test run then a race, kept with the D''s for two laps then had to pull the pin and a 30mile ride on Sunday, all on zwift of course.

Blooming sweaty biking inside though. Looking forward to more races and group rides.

There a setting in settings I'm not sure about, it's something about the resistance zwift will apply to a smart trainer, a slider 0 to 100, default is 50 but can't find out what it really does. Anyone?

*edit. Setting is called Trainer Difficulty

 

[merlin]

Keep that setting between 40% and 50%.

It's how much a hill feels like a hill, it's there to help trainers that can't electro brake over a certain gradient. So at 50% a 10% gradient becomes 5%, useful if your trainer tops at say 7%.

 

[Berger]

Hi Roady!

Interesting KISS race tonight... having missed a lot of riding I went for C grade knowing I can usually surf near the front and survive OK.

Quick start but OK I can hold on. Dropped a few wheels over the hill but only 5 seconds behind, usually comes back together on the descent, only it never did. At least 20 riders riding over 3w/kg.

I did 262w for the hour (3.3w/kg) 45 mins of that was with only 1 or 2 other people and we never saw C again, just B graders they were flying past....

 

[randomshenans]

I'm starting to try and sort my **** out and get back on it. I've been plagued with my back and sprained ankle, which are both still giving me pain. That and travel is a pain to get in any routine. Excuses aside, I set my second machine up downstairs again since I rebuilt it a couple of weeks ago and after some buggering about this morning (got to love wasting 40mins ******* about with tech) I just did 40 mins flat watopia.
It's like I've never ridden lol I kept it fairly gentle really, 175w average over it I think it was, so not tough but ankle actually felt fine, as did my back. Both of which hurt like buggery when I walk, so hoping I can plough away with some more rides on the trainer.
Outdoors would be nice, but I always carry a backpack to work, which again knackers my already crap back. Think I'll join one of these workout programs, set my ftp to -29823 which it seems to be and get into a routine again. I hate sucking so much lol

Oh, and did the analyser of this PC and still got 9/10 but then looking realised that as I'm running it through the 1080 TV, none of the 1080 Ultras are getting above 9, only 4k ones. Time to get a 4k TV for the basement