The joy of being a landlord

Mr Badger said:
There is no point in misrepresenting my position. I think I have acknowledged there are several factors at play, including the process of getting planning permission. But that is certainly not the only reason companies are not building more houses. Since when is it a conspiracy theory to observe that private business is acting more in the manner that will maximise shareholder returns, rather than for the public good?
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I think you've missed the point completely, assuming that were true - why would it be useful to hoard/speculate on land if it weren't so heavily restricted? Obviously it wouldn't! The underlying issue is still then the planning system.

But secondary to that you haven't provided anything to back up the claim, maybe there are a few developers that have sat on a plot and then flipped it but I suspect you'll find that in a lot of cases you're just looking at land that hasn't been developed *yet*, not land that the developer is hoping to sell on... and who would they be selling it on to that would have a more valuable use than developing housing on it? Another developer that can build more efficiently? That needs some explanation too - surely by default this can't really be the norm.

I'm not trying to misrepresent your position here, I'm just pointing out that you've provided nothing to back it up as a widespread phenomenon and secondly if not for planning restrictions how would such speculation work in the first place?

The whole reason there can be such a huge price difference between say agricultural land and land with planning permission for development is because of the restrictive planning system and typically the people who are profiting from flipping the land are current landowners, investors, farmers who get lucky etc.. it's typically developers who are then buying it off them at a higher price because they want to develop on it.
 
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I thought this was a pretty interesting watch covering some of the things discussed in this thread:
www.youtube.com

How UK housing developers scam the public and how we might stop them

The hidden scam we all pay for in the end. Sign up to squarespace to get 10% off! https://squarespace.com/evanedingerVlog channel https://youtube.com/EvanEdi...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

I was especially grossed out by the luxury student accomodation being retro-changed into luxury apartments that wouldn't have originally gotten planning permission, developers are sneaky little hobbitses.
 
dowie said:
I think you've missed the point completely, assuming that were true - why would it be useful to hoard/speculate on land if it weren't so heavily restricted? Obviously it wouldn't! The underlying issue is still then the planning system.

But secondary to that you haven't provided anything to back up the claim, maybe there are a few developers that have sat on a plot and then flipped it but I suspect you'll find that in a lot of cases you're just looking at land that hasn't been developed *yet*, not land that the developer is hoping to sell on... and who would they be selling it on to that would have a more valuable use than developing housing on it? Another developer that can build more efficiently? That needs some explanation too - surely by default this can't really be the norm.

I'm not trying to misrepresent your position here, I'm just pointing out that you've provided nothing to back it up as a widespread phenomenon and secondly if not for planning restrictions how would such speculation work in the first place?

The whole reason there can be such a huge price difference between say agricultural land and land with planning permission for development is because of the restrictive planning system and typically the people who are profiting from flipping the land are current landowners, investors, farmers who get lucky etc.. it's typically developers who are then buying it off them at a higher price because they want to develop on it.
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You're doing that thing again where you fixate on arguing against a minor comment from someone's posts as though it were the main point being presented. If you have been Googling for reasons why not enough homes are being built in the UK, then I'm surprised you haven't already come across information about the actions of the house building companies.
 
Mr Badger said:
You're doing that thing again where you fixate on arguing against a minor comment from someone's posts as though it were the main point being presented. If you have been Googling for reasons why not enough homes are being built in the UK, then I'm surprised you haven't already come across information about the actions of the house building companies.
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Your main point was some flawed claim re: social housing that I already responded to. You've thrown in some secondary claim that has some obvious flaws to it and isn't clearly stated thus the objections to it already mentioned.
 
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bigmike20vt said:
(as someone totally not qualified in economics and so probably am missing something) i think there is a good argument for having gold standard... it wouldnt have to be gold but having your printed money tied to something of an intrinsic worth makes sense......
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Yes, it makes a huge amount of sense. Once your money has an anchor to something of real intrinsic value, whatever that is, it creates a huge discipline over what money is, i.e. real economic value, and this puts discipline on the economy, and focuses it on generating real value. It allows the private sector to perform properly, or indeed flourish, it means correct price signals in the stock market, it means the rich in society are those who are providing actual and tangible value to other people.

Private landlords themselves do provide an element of real value, i.e. expertise in managing and maintaining a property. I am not opposed to private landlords, but I am opposed to some of the financing behind private and Buy to Let landlords, where this is rooted in unfair money creation by the banks, and has a detrimental impact on society.

What we have now is an error of money printing, i.e. money supply increase, and "funny money", which means true market economics are getting stifled, and society is becoming more dysfunctional, e.g. nurses can't afford to live in certain areas, even though they do a job of value to society. The banks themselves are not true market enterprises, they are kept in business by bailouts, which started in 2008. They no longer adhere to traditional banking values about managing risk. Their greed driven schemes have been made possible by the debasement of money. The massive derivatives market is kept going via bank bailouts, where technically a lot of the derivatives within it aren't backed up by things in the real world and would have the capacity to bankrupt the sector many times over if the true market downturn was allowed.

In summary, proper money, proper market functioning. Bring back a gold standard. Buy some Bitcoin.
 
Hes very good at making you think that hes a reasonable chap just looking out for everyone. Its the ol' the current laws are perfectly OK because everyone is a ruddy good chap and certainly wouldn't take advantage of a lack of regulation. The rich certainly wouldn't take advantage of everyone else and as everyone knows, the opposite of a completely free market is a socialist one.
 
krooton said:
I thought this was a pretty interesting watch covering some of the things discussed in this thread:
www.youtube.com

How UK housing developers scam the public and how we might stop them

The hidden scam we all pay for in the end. Sign up to squarespace to get 10% off! https://squarespace.com/evanedingerVlog channel https://youtube.com/EvanEdi...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

I was especially grossed out by the luxury student accomodation being retro-changed into luxury apartments that wouldn't have originally gotten planning permission, developers are sneaky little hobbitses.
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There have been a few developments around my city where planning permission was granted and the company then changed the plans. Usually removing amenities and affordable housing and/or wanting to squeeze in some more dwellings to improve profitability. The council comes under pressure to agree to the changes, or risk the whole project stalling. As far as I can recall from local reporting, the council tends to cave in rather than be accused of blocking developments, being unfriendly to business and not getting anything done. Or if you believe some people, the planning department/councillors take bribes. :eek:
 
fez said:
Hes very good at making you think that hes a reasonable chap just looking out for everyone. Its the ol' the current laws are perfectly OK because everyone is a ruddy good chap and certainly wouldn't take advantage of a lack of regulation. The rich certainly wouldn't take advantage of everyone else and as everyone knows, the opposite of a completely free market is a socialist one.
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The rich are taking advantage of everyone else and the current laws are the problem, fine for boomers with a paid-off mortgage and a substantial asset in the form of their house to oppose any new development (and indeed be among the only ones at regular planning meetings as everyone else interested is at work) but it's at the expense of the rest of the population who are now paying a silly amount of their take-home pay in the form of rent or mortgage payments.
 
Many of the HMO's, flats and houses in my Uncles small town that were bought when Granny died and her London house was worth £3.5m are now selling up with some being converted back to houses.

The results also of moving out large numbers of people from the cities, is the hike in bad tenants that are costing many too much to continue, which is a possible reason for the above.

Family have had 4 bad tenants last year, with costs estimated at around £25,000 + for repairs and lost revenue and family friends have also been hit by bad tenants.
 
fez said:
I've never understood the issue people have with mould. The number of people who seem to just completely ignore it for months and months and then complain boggles the mind. Yes there are plenty of houses that get mould because of a fault that needs fixing by the owner but I would never let any property I lived in build up mould like many people seem to. Wipe it off. Buy mould cleaning spray. What am I missing?
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A lot of new/younger renters seem not to understand that mould is a function of not enough heating and not enough airflow, so they keep all the windows and vents shut because they don't want any draught so they can keep the heating on less.

All of my properties have good insulation and window vents as they were required by building regs either at time of build or when windows were replaced so I make sure people understand what they're for when they move in. Having learned the hard way that left to their own devices most people will leave them shut 100% as they think they are saving money doing so.
 
My first flat (a while ago now) was ground floor and had various issues. The previous owner had replaced the large bottom opening windows with no security features or venting at all. You could just pull them open and step through. Mould wasn't obvious at first but it started behind a large bookcase. I ended up running a dehumidifier during the day when I was at work which fixed it pretty well.

Lots of lessons learnt about buying a place from there.
 
andybird123 said:
A lot of new/younger renters seem not to understand that mould is a function of not enough heating and not enough airflow, so they keep all the windows and vents shut because they don't want any draught so they can keep the heating on less.

All of my properties have good insulation and window vents as they were required by building regs either at time of build or when windows were replaced so I make sure people understand what they're for when they move in. Having learned the hard way that left to their own devices most people will leave them shut 100% as they think they are saving money doing so.
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i think i mentioned this earlier in thread but............
my wifes flat never had an issue with mould....... we rented it out and got a complaint about mould. we paid to get sorted multiple times (clean and paint with anti mould) in the end the council got involved threatening to prosecute us. we could not understand why it was happeneing given it had never been an issue when she lived there.

The council were 100% on the tenants side and not interested in why it was happening. in the end they moved out via mutual agreement (thank god).

it turned out the tenants had disconnected the electric heating and blocked up all airvents in the flat...... and yet still we were forced to give back full deposit and not only did we not get any sympathy from the council after we supplied images of what the tenants had done, they were still super aggressive making out we should think ourselves lucky we were not being prosecuted.

truth is black mould is a problem... we have it in multiple rooms in our house (more so than the wifes flat) it is just something we have to live with and do a couple of wipe down and clean ups each winter to stop it taking hold.

ours is due to 1) really dodgy wall insulation that we had installed (pushed on us by the council) combined with there are no airvents in our double glazed windows - which would not be allowed nowadays. it wasnt an issue initially as we had a baxi backboiler with chimney breast which went up through the middle of the house and gave airflow. but that has gone now
 
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Having just recently installed a PIV, they could be a great option, and not really all that expensive. Ours has done a stellar job getting humidty down, almost no condensation in the en-suite, and no mould spots anywhere now (3 weeks on).
 
krooton said:
Having just recently installed a PIV, they could be a great option, and not really all that expensive. Ours has done a stellar job getting humidty down, almost no condensation in the en-suite, and no mould spots anywhere now (3 weeks on).
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Fitted one in our flat as a last gasp effort to sort out condensation issues back in 2018, amazing invention.

Tenants kept on blocking trickle vents up, turning off extractor fans, not opening windows and drying clothes/cooking in conjunction. Was infuriating when they complained of condensation and damp causing mold. Of course it does if you create the environment for it!

The PIV with heating element works great and keeps the condensation under control even with a family living in there. Tbh, I don't even think they know what it does, which helps maybe so it doesn't get sobotaged.

Still, I really want to get rid of the place. The stress of it all isn't worth it to me, but the wife insists we keep it. Eurgh.
 
Fubsy said:
Fitted one in our flat as a last gasp effort to sort out condensation issues back in 2018, amazing invention.

Tenants kept on blocking trickle vents up, turning off extractor fans, not opening windows and drying clothes/cooking in conjunction. Was infuriating when they complained of condensation and damp causing mold. Of course it does if you create the environment for it!

The PIV with heating element works great and keeps the condensation under control even with a family living in there. Tbh, I don't even think they know what it does, which helps maybe so it doesn't get sobotaged.

Still, I really want to get rid of the place. The stress of it all isn't worth it to me, but the wife insists we keep it. Eurgh.
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I think this is the frustrating thing for landlords. When you own a house, you are responsible for any issues, damage etc that result from your own actions. When someone else is living in a house you own, you are still responsible for all this stuff. The big difference is that when its coming out of your own pocket, you tend to try and work out what you can do to fix the issue. When its the landlords issue, who cares. I find it bizarre that people will live in a mouldy house and not bother to do anything to help themselves.

Own a home - my problem, what is causing this and how can I fix this quickly and cheaply.
Renting a home - landlords proble, who cares whats causing it or how expensive it is to fix.

I assume the issue for the authorities is how can you determine when the landlord is just being useless and neglecting maintenance vs the tenants wilfully causing the problem and doing nothing to remedy it. If the solution is to heat their home more and ventilate vs forcing the landlord to do expensive work like putting in a PIV then its a no brainer for some tenants.

I guess as always the argument is. Is the landlord **** or is the tenant ****. You can't put the power in either parties hands too much because there are utter chancers on both sides of it.
 
fez said:
I think this is the frustrating thing for landlords. When you own a house, you are responsible for any issues, damage etc that result from your own actions. When someone else is living in a house you own, you are still responsible for all this stuff. The big difference is that when its coming out of your own pocket, you tend to try and work out what you can do to fix the issue. When its the landlords issue, who cares. I find it bizarre that people will live in a mouldy house and not bother to do anything to help themselves.

Own a home - my problem, what is causing this and how can I fix this quickly and cheaply.
Renting a home - landlords proble, who cares whats causing it or how expensive it is to fix.

I assume the issue for the authorities is how can you determine when the landlord is just being useless and neglecting maintenance vs the tenants wilfully causing the problem and doing nothing to remedy it. If the solution is to heat their home more and ventilate vs forcing the landlord to do expensive work like putting in a PIV then its a no brainer for some tenants.

I guess as always the argument is. Is the landlord **** or is the tenant ****. You can't put the power in either parties hands too much because there are utter chancers on both sides of it.
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I think the mindset is that if its "yours" you will be more careful with it, if its someone else who you are paying to use it, then its their issue.

As a long term renter this is not my mindset and i often remedy issues that should be sorted by the landlord, but if we have in anyway caused it we will remedy it ourselves.
 
Bar said:
I think the mindset is that if its "yours" you will be more careful with it, if its someone else who you are paying to use it, then its their issue.

As a long term renter this is not my mindset and i often remedy issues that should be sorted by the landlord, but if we have in anyway caused it we will remedy it ourselves.
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Yeah, thats unfortunately peoples views and then they will tell everyone how **** their landlord is. My partner ended up getting out a plumber to look at a problem with the toilet in her rental years ago. Turns out the light cord had snapped. Literally a 2 minute fix if you have a brain but "not my house, not my problem". Admittedly, the letting agent dropped the ball massively on this one as their first question should have been "what exactly is not working" but still, wouldn't have crossed my mind to call the landlord about that in any of my rentals.

Used to do my head in at our old flat when I would see the cost of utterly basic maintenance to the communal areas. Things like changing a broken light bulb in a stairwell costing silly money.

Then again, some people are chocolate teapots when it comes to DIY. I had a mate ask me to come over and help him fit a lock to a shed. His drill wasn't getting through the cm or so of wood. His drill was part of a kit that cost about £15 and came with everything you need to maintain your house so I assume the kit was just ****. Turns out he just didn't realise that you actually have to tighten the chuck on the drill bit or it doesn't drill very well. He had tightened it so it was just holding the bit but as soon as you applied any torque the bit was just sticking and the chuck rotating around it. Mind boggled. In his defence, he did acknowledge that he is not a practical man :p
 
Bar said:
I think the mindset is that if its "yours" you will be more careful with it, if its someone else who you are paying to use it, then its their issue.

As a long term renter this is not my mindset and i often remedy issues that should be sorted by the landlord, but if we have in anyway caused it we will remedy it ourselves.
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As a landlord, if/when my tenants do this I offer to compensate them (cost of parts plus a bit for doing the work), your landlord will probably be pretty thankful so might be worth having that conversation. If nothing else they might bear it in mind when it's time to renegotiate rent.

I would also at least let them know when you're going to do stuff because if he's a grumpy sod he might get uppity that you're "changing things". I also like to check sometimes what they've done exactly because a poor quality repair can lead to issues down the road and if it needs fixing I sometimes like to have it done "properly".
 
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