The joy of being a landlord

[FoxEye]

Ha, my mum lost about £20k on her flat

Yup, my tenants managed to decorate it with filth. Cost me £4K to sort the place out

My tenants had a dog

I had to fight to get people around to do boiler services and house inspections once a year, the tenant was always putting it off no matter what accomodation was made.

Fair.

Opportunists? Some no doubt, not all. Plus they do all the repairs and take the risk of tenants not paying with the costs that entails.

One size doesn't fit all.

Tenants should have protections. Landlords should have protections.

Things just aren't as black and white as you paint them.

Losing money on a house isn't the norm. Far from it.
Were your tenants allowed to decorate? Or make changes to the garden?
Were they allowed to have a dog?
Not all landlords are happy to do repairs when asked. Plenty of people get evicted for having the audacity to ask their landlord to fix something.
Yeah, a lot of them are opportunists. Because housing was for many years a "safe bet". It attracted people who had no idea about landlording and were just in it to make a quick buck. I'm sure you'll agree.

Tenants have great protections in other countries, and @Lopéz 's point about not needing to buy would be fair if it wasn't the UK we're talking about.

In the UK, protections have historically been non-existent, with the landlord holding all the cards.

Yes, I will acknowledge that when it goes all the way to court evictions then that is a pain. But the vast majority of tenants are law-abiding and move out when asked (for any/no reason).

 

[adidan]

Losing money on a house isn't the norm. Far from it.
Were your tenants allowed to decorate? Or make changes to the garden?

If they run the plans by me, sure.

Were they allowed to have a dog?

Yup, they just paid a bit extra on the deposit

Not all landlords are happy to do repairs when asked. Plenty of people get evicted for having the audacity to ask their landlord to fix something.

And tenants need protection for that. I don't know how anyone sleeps at night if they know they're actively allowing people to live in squalor that's not of their making

Yeah, a lot of them are opportunists. Because housing was for many years a "safe bet". It attracted people who had no idea about landlording and were just in it to make a quick buck. I'm sure you'll agree.

I agree tenants need protecting from that.

Yes, I will acknowledge that when it goes all the way to court evictions then that is a pain. But the vast majority of tenants are law-abiding and move out when asked (for any/no reason).

And landlords need protecting from them.

Listen, I think it's an absolute mess. Good tenants and good landlords need better protecting, the system currently works for landlords and tenants that don't give a damn. Oh, and agents, they get their money no matter what.

I'm not the best person to comment I guess having just had my awful tenant. Before that they were great, most just needing somewhere to rent for local work and secondments.

Anyway, I'm selling up and I can't say I'm not pleased that it's somebody buying who is moving into it rather it going to somebody to rent out.

 

[dowie]

Parking doesn't cover just cars but bikes of all varieties too. Do you really want residents to carry their motorbike to the top floor?

Not everyone has a motorbike... if that's an issue for them then don't move there, it's not a good reason not to build a block of flats.

Local authorities? You mean you, the council tax-payer.

Yeah, if the local authority has an increasing population (and therefore likely an increasing number of taxpayers present) to cater to they need to build more facilities.

 

[ProStreet]

I lost about 40k on my flat.

I was a landlord for 2 years, not out of choice. It really is a nightmare job. You make no money, take on **** load of risk and have to manage other people's lives.

 

[Pottsey]

Losing money on a house isn't the norm. Far from it.

Losing money on a house is pretty common these days. Prices have been going down for a while now. Sales are way down, mortgages being taken out are way down. Interest rates are massively up, mortgages costs are massively up. The predication for the future is for this to continue and to only get worse. We are already expecting another interest rise which will likely cause more people to lose even higher amounts of money on a house and this is a trend that is likely to continua for a long time (years). On top of this the price for new recent builds is going up but the sale price when you move out is down. The official data over 2023 compared to Dec 2022 has pretty much been a month-on-month fall with a trend of a fall continuing.

You also have to factor in sale time and running costs. Take the bungalow across the road from me before the COVID years it would have been sold in days of being put up for sale. On a bad month 2 or 3 weeks at most. Fast forward and today its been for sale for 6 months with price drops and 6 months of running costs causing more losing money. The house is empty but they cannot stop paying the bills so its being sold for a loss and causing further loss in money with running costs while its being sold which now takes way longer.

The days of low interest rates and easy credit are long over. As Smeemi says being a landlord today is a nightmare job with little to no money made often losing money, lots of risk, lots of work, lots of management. Then landlords have immoral people in this thread attacking them to top it all off.

 

[ProStreet]

Losing money on a house is pretty common these days. Prices have been going down for a while now. Sales are way down, mortgages being taken out are way down. Interest rates are massively up, mortgages costs are massively up. The predication for the future is for this to continue and to only get worse. We are already expecting another interest rise which will likely cause more people to lose even higher amounts of money on a house and this is a trend that is likely to continua for a long time (years). On top of this the price for new recent builds is going up but the sale price when you move out is down. The official data over 2023 compared to Dec 2022 has pretty much been a month-on-month fall with a trend of a fall continuing.

You also have to factor in sale time and running costs. Take the bungalow across the road from me before the COVID years it would have been sold in days of being put up for sale. On a bad month 2 or 3 weeks at most. Fast forward and today its been for sale for 6 months with price drops and 6 months of running costs causing more losing money. The house is empty but they cannot stop paying the bills so its being sold for a loss and causing further loss in money with running costs while its being sold which now takes way longer.

The days of low interest rates and easy credit are long over. As Smeemi says being a landlord today is a nightmare job with little to no money made often losing money, lots of risk, lots of work, lots of management. Then landlords have immoral people in this thread attacking them to top it all off.

Too right. And around 80% of landlords have one additional property, with the majority of them falling into being a landlord like me.

During covid I wanted to move to a house, as I wanted some outside space. At the time, no one wanted flats, plus there was the cladding issue was in full swing. I literally had to rent out the flat to move, no other way other than losing maybe 60k in 3 years.

Fast forward, my flat got flooded in the process of renting it out, I was a good landlord that really helped out my tenants.. I went there whenever there was a problem immediately.

Thankfully my tenants paid on time. However at the end of it, I broke even at best.. which is fine. Still lost 40k on my flat but that was expected as flat prices are way down from 2017 peaks (which people don't see as they look at house prices as a whole)

The only way being a landlord makes sense is if you're domiciled overseas, you pay no tax then. Whereas for me everything was taxed at the higher rate plus student loan and you only get about 1/5 of interest costs taken off your income.

 

[randomshenans]

Can I just ask the anti private landlord socialist crew to explain how landlords are pushing up house prices with their 12% of property purchases? If 78% of homes are bought by owners, wouldn't they be the ones driving up the prices? And, surely this equates to a supply issue in that case?

On top of this, how can social rents be more "fair" i.e. lower, if the housing supply isn't increased? You'd be in the exact same situation and the numbers don't work.

 

[Freakbro]

Losing money on a house is pretty common these days. Prices have been going down for a while now.

Let's not over egg the pudding. They've started to come down, -1.5% in Feb according to some data but they are still up over 4% on the year on year figure. And, when you factor in the amount they have risen just in the last few years (~10% a year since 2019/2020?) there's a loooooong way to go before people are actually 'losing' money on their asset rather than having less of an overall appreciation. Avg house price has risen 76% in the last 10 years.

Sure, people who have just recently bought at the top of the market might actually see some negative equity by the end of the year, but if they've just bought then it's unlikely they will be wanting to move so quickly, so the negative equity won't be that much of an issue until it comes time to renew the mortgage.

But the people who have property as investments, then just like the stock market at any one time the price can go down as well as up, but over the long term it will always go up. So there's been what, 30 years of smooth? so forgive me if I'm not shedding a tear for people now there's coming a bit of rough. And I say this as a hobbyist landlord.

 

[subbytna]

The issue is that Millennials have known NOTHING but low interest rates. Nothing but low. Older folk (yes me included) remember the normal and also the stupidly high 10%+ rates of the 90's too. They got used to low rates and didn't know any better they were just young children or didn't even exist at the time of high or normal rates of interest.

Now that things are returning to "assumed levels" of rates, they are stunned at what is "somewhat near the norm" to the rest of us. Remember getting a decent interest rate on your savings?

I'd recommend that if you are in your 20s, don't be getting that loan or credit card out. Focus on paying off your debt first. If you need something save for it, if you can't save for it, don't get it or make do with what you have. Mend and repair.

 

[JonRGV250]

^
Plenty of people hooked on cheap credit.

 

[200sols]

The issue is that Millennials have known NOTHING but low interest rates. Nothing but low. Older folk (yes me included) remember the normal and also the stupidly high 10%+ rates of the 90's too. They got used to low rates and didn't know any better they were just young children or didn't even exist at the time of high or normal rates of interest.

Now that things are returning to "assumed levels" of rates, they are stunned at what is "somewhat near the norm" to the rest of us. Remember getting a decent interest rate on your savings?

I'd recommend that if you are in your 20s, don't be getting that loan or credit card out. Focus on paying off your debt first. If you need something save for it, if you can't save for it, don't get it or make do with what you have. Mend and repair.

Except small rates today are effectively much higher than you think. The size of the debt makes a huge difference.

Why a 3% rate today is the same as a 14% rate in the 1980s

Why a small rate rise today is so much more painful for your clients

www.mpamag.com

6% mortgage rates are equivalent to 25% in 1980, lender claims - Estate Agent Today

Leeds Building Society has pledged to honour any mortgage offers and support borrowers during this period of market uncertainty.

www.estateagenttoday.co.uk

 

[subbytna]

^
Plenty of people hooked on cheap credit.

Exactly, the "buy now pay later" generation....and now it's PAY LATER time

 

[Sythe79]

The issue is that Millennials have known NOTHING but low interest rates. Nothing but low. Older folk (yes me included) remember the normal and also the stupidly high 10%+ rates of the 90's too. They got used to low rates and didn't know any better they were just young children or didn't even exist at the time of high or normal rates of interest.

Now that things are returning to "assumed levels" of rates, they are stunned at what is "somewhat near the norm" to the rest of us. Remember getting a decent interest rate on your savings?

I'd recommend that if you are in your 20s, don't be getting that loan or credit card out. Focus on paying off your debt first. If you need something save for it, if you can't save for it, don't get it or make do with what you have. Mend and repair.

Interest rates are largely irrelevant as far as housing goes for an increasingly large proportion of the population, It's a cost to income question.

but seriously good advice if you can't afford a home just do without and be homeless, I'm sure there's a lot of ignorant people out there that are kicking themselves they didn't realise this.

 

[subbytna]

Interest rates are largely irrelevant as far as housing goes for an increasingly large proportion of the population, It's a cost to income question.

but seriously good advice if you can't afford a home just do without and be homeless, I'm sure there's a lot of ignorant people out there that are kicking themselves they didn't realise this.

Didn't realise owning a property meant you are actually homeless....I'm referring to owners already, after all landlords generally own a property. They'd be a bit fooooked if they didn't, it is a landlord thread isn't it? Or have I misposted in some random thread.

 

[Sythe79]

That's the problem if you're in your 20s you probably don't own a home, cart and horse. sage advice of don't buy what you can't afford doesn't really work with a need.

 

[Deleted member 77746]

That's the problem if you're in your 20s you probably don't own a home, cart and horse. sage advice of don't buy what you can't afford doesn't really work with a need.

That's family, it specifically states about it been in a household it's fine to log into multiple devices.

 

[Deleted member 68110]

The issue is that Millennials have known NOTHING but low interest rates. Nothing but low. Older folk (yes me included) remember the normal and also the stupidly high 10%+ rates of the 90's too. They got used to low rates and didn't know any better they were just young children or didn't even exist at the time of high or normal rates of interest.

Now that things are returning to "assumed levels" of rates, they are stunned at what is "somewhat near the norm" to the rest of us. Remember getting a decent interest rate on your savings?

I'd recommend that if you are in your 20s, don't be getting that loan or credit card out. Focus on paying off your debt first. If you need something save for it, if you can't save for it, don't get it or make do with what you have. Mend and repair.

Ugh. So disappointing that this nonsense thinking still persists.

Have a read:-

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/05/how-uk-house-prices-have-soared-ahead-average-wages

"The average house price is 65 times higher than in 1970 but average wages are only 36 times higher."​

https://www.avtrinity.com/news/house-prices-vs-income-how-affordable-are-uk-homes

"House price affordability is simply the number of times the average salary needs to be multiplied to buy the average house. For example, in 1983 the average house price was £26,000 and the average salary was £8,528. Therefore, it would take 3 times the average salary to buy the average house.​

​

In 1993 the average house price was £56,000 and the average salary was £17,784. Therefore, it would take also 3.1 times the average salary to buy the average house.​

​

In 2003 things got more expensive as the average house price was £125,000 and the average salary was £21,124. Therefore, it would now take 5.9 times the average salary to buy the average house.​

​

In 2013, affordability took another hit as the average house price was now £165,000 but the average salary was only £27,011. Therefore, it would take 6.1 times the average salary to buy the average house.​

​

In 2023 (figures from 2022), house affordability took another turn for the worse as the average house price rose to £280,000 and the average salary had only risen to £33,000. Therefore, it would take 8.5 times the average salary to buy the average house."​

Interest rates are a fig leaf and a deflection to help Boomers turn away from the fact they were the most pampered generation in history, and comprehensively pulled the ladder up behind them.

 

[Scam]

The issue is that Millennials have known NOTHING but low interest rates.

Well that's wrong for a start. I'm a millennial and starting saving as soon as I started working. I remember decent interest rates and feeling proud of getting a return on my being "sensible" and putting money away every month - even when I was living in London on minimum wage. But then I watched as Labour gave tax breaks to landlords.. speculators, MPs and other boomers built their BTL empires and got rich, borrowing was made easy, the 2008 crash happened and we bailed out the banks at everyone else's expense, and successive governments watched (and helped!) as London become the money laundering capital of the world (via property).

Ugh. So disappointing that this nonsense thinking still persists.

Indeed. Ignorance is bliss. Next he'll be saying millennials need to stop buying avocado toast

Boomers turn away from the fact they were the most pampered generation in history, and comprehensively pulled the ladder up behind them.

Yeah, they definitely don't like to hear that

 

[dowie]

Ugh. So disappointing that this nonsense thinking still persists.

Have a read:-

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/05/how-uk-house-prices-have-soared-ahead-average-wages

"The average house price is 65 times higher than in 1970 but average wages are only 36 times higher."​

https://www.avtrinity.com/news/house-prices-vs-income-how-affordable-are-uk-homes

"House price affordability is simply the number of times the average salary needs to be multiplied to buy the average house. For example, in 1983 the average house price was £26,000 and the average salary was £8,528. Therefore, it would take 3 times the average salary to buy the average house.​

[...]​

Interest rates are a fig leaf and a deflection to help Boomers turn away from the fact they were the most pampered generation in history, and comprehensively pulled the ladder up behind them.

It doesn't mean they should be ignored, especially if someone is going to claim to talk about affordability...they're talking about affordability but just comparing prices (a reflection of the low-interest rates) this gets missed all the time... house prices could flatten or fall as a result of higher interest rates but it doesn't necessarily mean housing is any more affordable for people, people are still going to be competing with each other for a limited number of homes.

The issue again is the lack of supply.

 

[FoxEye]

Can I just ask the anti private landlord socialist crew to explain how landlords are pushing up house prices with their 12% of property purchases? If 78% of homes are bought by owners, wouldn't they be the ones driving up the prices? And, surely this equates to a supply issue in that case?

On top of this, how can social rents be more "fair" i.e. lower, if the housing supply isn't increased? You'd be in the exact same situation and the numbers don't work.

The house purchasing stats doesn't mean much. Landlords could hold onto a property for longer on average, and that would skew the stats accordingly.

The stat that matters is that ~19% or ~20% of households rent privately (2022/2023).

Re your social rent question: you must know that currently we pay £billions to private landlords from the treasury in housing benefit.

Council housing would be bought or built the taxpayer, but thereafter the only cost is maintenance. The council does not have to increase rents in line with market rates, it can do whatever it wants, charge whatever it wants. It can use rental income to pay off debts or reinvest in more housing. On the other hand, a private landlord (almost) always increases rents in line with market values, meaning an ever-greater bill for the tax payer.

Whichever way you want to look at it, there are many, many people who would be homeless without state intervention. Housing cannot be left to market forces. It must be a human right.