The labour Leader thread...

[gjrc]

why has this thread become a conservative v labour thread?

mods perhaps you should moderate?

it should only be about the labour leadership contest and the fact that the party is tearing itself to shreds. all of this in the vain bid to find anything any of them has to say that is believable or credible or sensible or electable.

outside of that you are off topic... obviously given the above there is not a lot to talk about......

good luck labour... Corbyn is your next Kinnock.... to paraphrase: "last one out, turn off the lights."

 

[Deleted member 66701]

While I'm a big critic of the New Labour government even I think you're being slightly unfair. New Labour did have a range of centre left policies - Sure Start, Tax Credits, Building Schools for the Future, The Minimum Wage, etc. - the problem was that it thought that it could run a starkly Thatcherite economy and then solve the problems by dealing with them after the fact rather than doing anything much to make the underlying economy more just.

Min Wage was a fig to leftist policies - it set the level so low that it entrenched poverty and legitimised employers paying wage that you couldn't live on. The idea is leftist, it's implementation was decidedly right wing.

Tax credits are the same - it removed the responsibility from employer for having to pay a decent wage and passed it onto the state - effectively the state subsidised **** employers - if that's not a right wing dream I don't know what is.

Schools for the future also opened the doors for the first time to private investors (PFI) - again, another Thatcherite dream come to fruition.

Serious question, do you think Corbyn will become PM?

No.

 

[Danthus]

Min Wage was a fig to leftist policies - it set the level so low that it entrenched poverty and legitimised employers paying wage that you couldn't live on. The idea is leftist, it's implementation was decidedly right wing.

Tax credits are the same - it removed the responsibility from employer for having to pay a decent wage and passed it onto the state - effectively the state subsidised **** employers - if that's not a right wing dream I don't know what is.

Schools for the future also opened the doors for the first time to private investors (PFI) - again, another Thatcherite dream come to fruition.

I don't disagree with much of that, right ideas, poorly implemented.

 

[Danthus]

It makes everybody richer so although the poor are still poor, relatively they are more well off.

No it doesn't and there are reports that to back that up.

 

[elmarko]

While I'd be genuinely surprised if Corbyn ever did become PM, people should not underestimate the attraction of a direct politician with principles & a reasonable skilled & charismatic public speaker.

While he is hardly astronomical on these grounds, his opposition are pretty much void on the matter. On just a completely anecdotal basis every single person who even slightly leans left I've spoken to would be willing to vote for him, along with a number of skilled worker Conservative voters who feel our economic policies are stagnating growth excessively.

Saying that, even if he does win the leadership I can imagine them replacing him with somebody closer to the centre for the next election (But not too far as to alienate all the newcomers). In my view that would have achieved the aim of his campaign, to reignite old debates & challenge the rightward trajectory of the political discussion.

 

[Danthus]

If Corbyn is elected Labour won't have time to discuss policy, they will be to busy trying to deflect attention from the attacks on Corbyn and his character.

 

[Freakbro]

No it doesn't and there are reports that to back that up.

Pfft, who cares about reports and facts, Alec and Rob have their unsubstantiated opinion, that's all we need!

 

[Caged]

It would be hilarious if the Tories beat Corbyn with Boris

Boris is great to have a chuckle at and now again his Telegraph rants that boil down to "certain people annoy me" using far too many words are amusing. But he'd be an awful PM - he's barely a competent mayor.

 

[Tefal]

It'll be the UK in about 10 years.

you think in ten years time Britain will be like Africa?

 

[robgmun]

why has this thread become a conservative v labour thread?

mods perhaps you should moderate?

it should only be about the labour leadership contest and the fact that the party is tearing itself to shreds. all of this in the vain bid to find anything any of them has to say that is believable or credible or sensible or electable.

outside of that you are off topic... obviously given the above there is not a lot to talk about......

good luck labour... Corbyn is your next Kinnock.... to paraphrase: "last one out, turn off the lights."

Mostly because some poor deluded soles here think that if Corbyn becomes the next Labour leader that everyone who doesn't vote Tory will flock back to Labour and they think they have some sort of chance in 2020. It's almost cringe-worthy just how they've managed to to convince themselves of this via some gold-medal level of mental gymnastics! And you're spot on Corbyn is the next Kinnock

 

[robgmun]

Boris is great to have a chuckle at and now again his Telegraph rants that boil down to "certain people annoy me" using far too many words are amusing. But he'd be an awful PM - he's barely a competent mayor.

Just to counter this, and the fact i'm a Londoner since i was born, he's been by far the best mayor our city has ever had. While Red Ken was in office he was hammering the poor in the city with crippling council tax rises and inflation busting hikes in tube fairs

 

[CorrectHorseBattery]

Boris is a good Mayor.

 

[Caged]

How dare someone get people talking about politics again and encourage questioning of the current status quo!

Rob, even as the most hardened Tory/UKIP/whatever, do you see value in a strong Labour party or do you just see it getting in the way of a good old Thatcherism circle-jerk?

 

[Caged]

Just to counter this, and the fact i'm a Londoner since i was born, he's been by far the best mayor our city has ever had. While Red Ken was in office he was hammering the poor in the city with crippling council tax rises and inflation busting hikes in tube fairs

Best of two. Unless you're counting GLC leaders.

 

[JohnnyG]

...While Red Ken was in office he was hammering the poor in the city with crippling council tax rises and inflation busting hikes in tube fairs

Not to mention his decision to go ahead with the western extension of the congestion charge zone even though 'a substantial majority of respondents did not want the extension' in an area that hasn't really got that much of a congestion problem anyway.
Horrible man.

 

[robgmun]

Rob, even as the most hardened Tory/UKIP/whatever, do you see value in a strong Labour party or do you just see it getting in the way of a good old Thatcherism circle-jerk?

I see absolutely zero value of any left leaning political group, weather it is the Labour party or unions, they do nothing but damage the country and hold back progress both economically and socially

 

[Caged]

So your utopia would be a pay for everything yourself, private insurance out the ass, zero regulation, no/low tax 'society'?

 

[robgmun]

So your utopia would be a pay for everything yourself, private insurance out the ass, zero regulation, no/low tax 'society'?

If you think that what the Tories are all about then no wonder you have a blinkered view of the world.

 

[V F]

why has this thread become a conservative v labour thread?

mods perhaps you should moderate?

it should only be about the labour leadership contest and the fact that the party is tearing itself to shreds. all of this in the vain bid to find anything any of them has to say that is believable or credible or sensible or electable.

outside of that you are off topic... obviously given the above there is not a lot to talk about......

good luck labour... Corbyn is your next Kinnock.... to paraphrase: "last one out, turn off the lights."

Personally I'm just curious why there is a 40 page Labour leader thread on a Tory forum... A lot of concern in this thread.

 

[Caged]

If you think that what the Tories are all about then no wonder you have a blinkered view of the world.

Nope, didn't claim that. You stated that any left-wing influence is bad so I conjured up the most neoliberal thing I could think of to try and get an idea of where you're coming from.