The Last of US II Spoiler and story discussion thread.

Soldato
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Erm what:confused:. You do realise that isn't what strong women/female soldiers look like right? or did you choose to ignore how unrealistic it is?

This tiny waif of a girl Ellie can just murder her way through hordes of heavily armed men? You choose to ignore how unrealistic that is?
 
Soldato
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Both of those are unrealistic but Abby is the only one visibly looking out of place given the setting and resources. You don't even realise what it takes to make a woman look like that. Biology 101. She's not Nadine from Uncharted who was very athletic but with a build still achievable with lots of hard work and diet.

I wish it was the only problem with the writing, though. Would be 10/10.
 
Soldato
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This tiny waif of a girl Ellie can just murder her way through hordes of heavily armed men? You choose to ignore how unrealistic that is?
Anyone murdering their way through hordes of people is unrealistic especially in the case of 1 vs multiple. The 1 is most likely to lose. However characters performing unrealistic feats of strength and combat prowess is something that has been accepted in gaming and film for the purpose of entertainment.

Now can you please explain
1. why you have chosen to ignore the fact that Abby is unrealistic from a physical standpoint
2. would you accept it if Dina had a foxes tail just for the sake of it.

Edit: @Amatsubu :D
 
Soldato
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When you play as Abby, you walk through the WLF stadium, which is equipped with a large gym and a lot of training equipment. It’s completely possible for Abby to have buffed up over time. Why are people saying this isn’t possible ?
 
Soldato
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What do you mean? That's precisely how strong women look. After years of SAA:D She's obviously been scavenging everywhere for steroids and following a careful diet, perfect setting for this build, considering she had problems finding equipment to amputate an arm.
I think people are getting too hung up about Abby's appearance. While playing the game it never once crossed my mind she was roided up or did I care. I was more taken back by the pointless hospital mission where she spends hours searching and risking her life fighting an end boss to save someone, for them to only get killed in the next section anyway.

But what can you do, just got to keep spamming square button and keep it moving.
 
Soldato
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When you play as Abby, you walk through the WLF stadium, which is equipped with a large gym and a lot of training equipment. It’s completely possible for Abby to have buffed up over time. Why are people saying this isn’t possible ?
She needs to have a really good diet (high in protein and calories), and working out at least 4 times a week consistently for years (best guess is 4 years minimum) to look like this. If any of these stops for a sufficient amount of time (1+months) she will begin to lose muscle mass.

edit: For reference they say you need 1.5g -2.2g of protein for every kilo of body weight.
I weigh 110kg (pre lockdown probably less now) I would need 165g to 242g of protein a day.
Eggs are high in protein and are about 6-7g of protein for an average egg. I would need to consume 23-35 eggs a day for my protein intake. (yes i am simplifying it to one food type but you get the point.)

Yes she could train 4 days a week but i highly doubt that she can constantly provide the food necessary to fuel her body based on the setting they are in.

Also don't they need to leave camp for weeks at a time meaning she would not be able to keep up a training schedule?

I don't think it is possible for a woman to look like that without performance enhancing drugs (which she would need to be constantly taking) but i am giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming she is a genetic anomaly
 
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Soldato
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When you play as Abby, you walk through the WLF stadium, which is equipped with a large gym and a lot of training equipment. It’s completely possible for Abby to have buffed up over time. Why are people saying this isn’t possible ?

Do you realise how much SAA is required to make a woman look like that and develop male features? As I've already said, it's basic biology. I have female fitness trainer friends with a history of competitions, none of them look like that. It's not just unlikely but completely IMPOSSIBLE unless you roid like crazy for years and have perfect diet. Her looks are completely exaggerated. Even her model is on steroids.
Where does Abby get this stuff? Is the WLF on a mission to gather every piece of SAA available? Do the produce them in chemical labs? Does she scour hospitals for them when she has trouble finding simpler stuff there for the plot? It's not something that completely ruins the game but she does stick out like a sore thumb.

I think people are getting too hung up about Abby's appearance. While playing the game it never once crossed my mind she was roided up or did I care. I was more taken back by the pointless hospital mission where she spends hours saving someone for them to get killed in the next section anyway.

But what can you do, just got to keep spamming square and keep it moving.

Abby's looks are just some light comedy. I have more actual issues with the shoddy writing that I summarised in my 5 points as a response in the last page (I think).
 
Soldato
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I thought I'd sum up my interpretation of the game, in the context of the first....to see where I'm coming from.

The first game is a fairly simple buddy movie type at first. Joel the gruff survivalist, upset about his past, Ellie the innocent, well meaning, naive kid and they develop through the game. We get hints throughout the game that this isn't a hero story, that Joel is a damaged, ruthless killer....which culminates in him snapping over the grief of his lost child, stopping Ellie from saving the world, and murdering a swathe of innocent people, and then lying to her about the whole thing. It's a selfish act, Joel is not a good person.

Part 2, timeline hops around a lot, but we see that Ellie has suspicions about what went on at the hospital, goes in search of answers, and eventually finds out what happened, she confronts him, their relationship is irreparably damaged. Joel knows he shouldn't have done it, but he knows he couldn't have in his eyes have let his daughter die all over again.

Joel dies. Now I don't have a problem with his naivety in this section. Later on in the game in the section with the tripwires, the dialogue establishes that Jackson is not a fortress, they are welcoming to strangers. They talk about putting trip wires up around Jackson and how they'd have to put signs up to make sure no innocent people get killed by them. Joel after living in a welcoming town like Jackson for years is not the same Joel out on the road not trusting anyone.

Ellie witnesses this and is infected with a seething rage. We're introduced to Abby, who is obviously filled with a similar rage.

We get into themes of different factions justifying what they believe is right but ultimately just appearing to be monsters to outsiders. We see that the Fireflies were decent people and Joel's protecting of Ellie, from their point of view is just a lunatic murderous psycho, just how Abby appears to Ellie.

The two women, infected (see what they did there), are set on a collision course. Is either one of them going to break the cycle of violence? Ultimately Abby is redeemed first, as Lev, the previously 'psycho' 'other' scar that she's grown attached to, persuades her to stop. Ellie doesn't stop, so we get basically a repeat ending with a different backdrop. Abby is redeemed already. Ellie this time, perhaps seeing the parallels between Ellie/Joel and Abby/Lev, finally lets it go.

Now, it's clumsy at times, and not particularly clever, and goes on too long....but it's not the travesty that some people make out. I don't know what story these armchair writers would have come up with, but I thoroughly enjoyed it as it is. There's kinda a limit to what you can do with a game where the core game loop revolves around ruthlessly murdering scores of people.

The first game makes the motivation for all the killing survival, right up until the final act, which flips the narrative on it's head, setting the game on the course that is played out in Part 2.
 
Soldato
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She needs to have a really good diet (high in protein and calories), and working out at least 4 times a week consistently for years (best guess is 4 years minimum) to look like this. If any of these stops for a sufficient amount of time (1+months) she will begin to lose muscle mass.

edit: For reference they say you need 1.5g -2.2g of protein for every kilo of body weight.
I weigh 110kg (pre lockdown probably less now) I would need 165g to 242g of protein a day.
Eggs are high in protein and are about 6-7g of protein for an average egg. I would need to consume 23-35 eggs a day for my protein intake. (yes i am simplifying it to one food type but you get the point.)

Yes she could train 4 days a week but i highly doubt that she can constantly provide the food necessary to fuel her body based on the setting they are in.

Also don't they need to leave camp for weeks at a time meaning she would not be able to keep up a training schedule?

I don't think it is possible for a woman to look like that without performance enhancing drugs (which she would need to be constantly taking) but i am giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming she is a genetic anomaly

You're ignoring my question about Ellie? Why is it not acceptable for Abby to be 'unrealistic', when Ellie's character is absolutely absurdly unrealistic....how the hell is that waif supposed to be taking down scores of massive, armed, armoured soldiers? Did I miss TLOU 1.5 where Ellie goes on ninja training camp? At least Abby's appearance is justified in the game, she throws herself into training after her dad dies, boasts about bench presses, and lives next door to the gym.
 
Soldato
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Now, it's clumsy at times, and not particularly clever, and goes on too long....but it's not the travesty that some people make out. I don't know what story these armchair writers would have come up with, but I thoroughly enjoyed it as it is. There's kinda a limit to what you can do with a game where the core game loop revolves around ruthlessly murdering scores of people.

The first game makes the motivation for all the killing survival, right up until the final act, which flips the narrative on it's head, setting the game on the course that is played out in Part 2.

It is indeed way too long, I would have been happier if it ended at the farm house with Ellie realising that killing Abby wouldn't solve anything. Instead travelling all that way only for a 2 second flashback to change her mind.
 
Soldato
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Joel dies. Now I don't have a problem with his naivety in this section. Later on in the game in the section with the tripwires, the dialogue establishes that Jackson is not a fortress, they are welcoming to strangers. They talk about putting trip wires up around Jackson and how they'd have to put signs up to make sure no innocent people get killed by them. Joel after living in a welcoming town like Jackson for years is not the same Joel out on the road not trusting anyone.
.

In the second flashback (?) where it says two years earlier i think it was when they were going to the guitar shop Ellie and Joel have a dissagreement on why she should wear the mask when nobody is around. Paraphrasing the discussion Joel states that she should be cautious incase they meet someone. So it shows he was still a cautious person up to 2 years prior to this games setting.

From what i can find the first game takes place 20 yerars after the initial outbreak. And part 2 is 25 years after the initial outbreak. Even if we go on the best case an ignore my example above. I don't see how 5 years of "peace" can undo 20 years of behaviour developed due to the need to survive. All you need to do is look at soldier who come back after serving 3-5 years in an active warzone. They never truly lose that survival behaviour.
 
Soldato
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It is indeed way too long, I would have been happier if it ended at the farm house with Ellie realising that killing Abby wouldn't solve anything. Instead travelling all that way only for a 2 second flashback to change her mind.
Tommy being an a-hole to Ellie at the farmhouse didn’t help.
 
Soldato
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You're ignoring my question about Ellie? Why is it not acceptable for Abby to be 'unrealistic', when Ellie's character is absolutely absurdly unrealistic....how the hell is that waif supposed to be taking down scores of massive, armed, armoured soldiers? Did I miss TLOU 1.5 where Ellie goes on ninja training camp? At least Abby's appearance is justified in the game, she throws herself into training after her dad dies, boasts about bench presses, and lives next door to the gym.
No, i did reply see below. Talking about ignoring you either didn't read my post which you quoted or didn't understand what i wrote because I've already answered why simply living next to a gym isn't sufficient.
Anyone murdering their way through hordes of people is unrealistic especially in the case of 1 vs multiple. The 1 is most likely to lose. However characters performing unrealistic feats of strength and combat prowess is something that has been accepted in gaming and film for the purpose of entertainment.

Now can you please explain
1. why you have chosen to ignore the fact that Abby is unrealistic from a physical standpoint
2. would you accept it if Dina had a foxes tail just for the sake of it.
 
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Soldato
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No i didn't see below. Talking about ignoring you either didn't read my post which you quoted or didn't understand what i wrote because I've already answered why simply living next to a gym isn't sufficient.

Missed that post.

Now you are obviously willing to suspend disbelief at Ellie's unrealistic build, but not Abby's. That's fine.

For me, there is no issue. The idea that a tiny girl like Ellie is a superhuman killer ninja is far more ridiculous to me than.....Abby being able to get enough protein in her diet to beef up.

Maybe because I do a lot of climbing and see women that are bigger than me regularly :p Have you ever seen Alex Puccio? She's a beast, probably kick Abby's ass :)
 
Soldato
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This review I feel is one of the best yet and discuses all aspects of the game. It pretty much reflects how I feel about it coming from The Last of us being one of my all time favourite games....

https://youtu.be/A5bw4CmLZcY

I just can't abide the self-righteous hyperbole of these youtubers. Acting like a game being not as good in some people's eyes as they would have liked, is some momentous grave tragedy, that a crime has been committed.

He talks like Joel was his own actual dad and Neil Druckmann personally murdered him, it's very hard to take seriously.

I just don't get this behaviour where people feel like they have some kind of ownership over a game that other people have created. It's their game to do as they like with, they decide what is right and wrong for the game. If you disagree with it, well shucks, people have different opinions on things. Part of being a grown up is learning to deal with differing opinions, they don't have to be 'wrong'.
 
Soldato
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Everyone has their own opinion and for me the story was awful. No idea why people get so upset about a difference of opinion I personally could not care less if you don’t agree with me. If you enjoyed the game then great I’m sure there are games I have enjoyed that others dislike everyone is different.

No idea why you cannot discuss your feelings on the game without just turning to childish remarks though. Discuss your opinion and why you think mine is wrong that’s the point of a discussion forum.
 
Soldato
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Everyone has their own opinion and for me the story was awful. No idea why people get so upset about a difference of opinion I personally could not care less if you don’t agree with me. If you enjoyed the game then great I’m sure there are games I have enjoyed that others dislike everyone is different.

No idea why you cannot discuss your feelings on the game without just turning to childish remarks though. Discuss your opinion and why you think mine is wrong that’s the point of a discussion forum.

Was that directed at me? I'm totally fine with people not liking the game, and I don't think your opinion of the game is wrong.

What I have a problem with is the attitude among some posters, and youtubers etc, that their opinion is some objective truth, that a crime has been committed, and everyone has to agree with their groupthink and denounce it as trash.

Anyway, most well adjusted people will see the consensus from people that have actually played it. Wonderful technical achievement, improved gameplay over the first, sound, graphics, animation raising the bar. A story and writing that in some people's eyes is good but a bit simple and drawn out, to outright trash obviously in the minds of some people.
 
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