The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (Prime)

Permabanned
Joined
23 Apr 2014
Posts
23,551
Location
Hertfordshire
Don't give a monkeys about some of the "lore" changes or it being woke. Just needs to be well written and I don't hold much hope of that.

Witcher was decent, Expanse was decent, GOT was decent(on the whole). It can be done well.

Saying all that, not really fussed with the show anyway. Not a fan of prequels.
 
Soldato
Joined
12 Oct 2006
Posts
10,614
Location
Tatooine
My eyes and ears are bleeding hah.

Was the above a joke or an attempt at a troll?

Did they really unlist it?

How bloody long did it take them to talk about actually characters .
 
Soldato
Joined
13 May 2003
Posts
8,890
There does seem to be a pattern around the more time you spend diversifying your remake the less decent the story writing ends up being. It's almost like putting all that effort into pandering to some non-existent external expectation takes the focus from the very real desire for a well written and made product.

I suspect most of the good writers aren't good enough at buzz word bingo to get the gig because they're normally focussed on writing something people will enjoy.
 
Caporegime
Joined
23 Apr 2014
Posts
29,982
Location
Chadsville
There does seem to be a pattern around the more time you spend diversifying your remake the less decent the story writing ends up being. It's almost like putting all that effort into pandering to some non-existent external expectation takes the focus from the very real desire for a well written and made product.

I suspect most of the good writers aren't good enough at buzz word bingo to get the gig because they're normally focussed on writing something people will enjoy.

It really makes no sense for a storyline that can offer plenty of depth and diversity naturally.

They are more worried about being accused of not being diverse enough than making something that will stand the test of time.
 
Soldato
Joined
20 Aug 2021
Posts
7,046
Location
Krypton
It's Star Trek Discovery all over again
unfortunately when a company like Amazon is far more interested in hiring based on skin colour or sexual orientation rather than the best they can possibly get the story will always suffer.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...tment-to-Diverse-and-Equitable-Representation

Amazon Studios has long prioritized telling innovative and inclusive stories from a diverse range of creative talent, delighting our global audiences. We wanted to move beyond good intentions to creating mechanisms that hold us accountable to a high bar. This Inclusion Policy and Inclusion Playbook adds important, additional depth and guidance for our internal teams and external partners to ensure we continue to advance our shared mission of amplifying the best creatives and content around the world,” said Latasha Gillespie, Executive Head of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion at Amazon Studios.

“With the establishment of our Inclusion Policy and Inclusion Playbook, Amazon Studios has committed itself to being a thought and action leader in the transformation of our industry,” said Jennifer Salke, Head of Amazon Studios. “We know how much work there is to be done to improve representation both on camera and behind the scenes, and it starts at home, with us. With clear directives and a commitment to accountability, these guides provide a path toward a more equitable future, both on- and off-camera.”

Amazon Studios shared the Policy and Playbook with creators, including Gloria Calderón Kellett, creator and executive producer of the upcoming Amazon Original series With Love. Said Kellett, “I am so proud to be a part of a creative community at Amazon that understands the importance of what I’ve been doing my whole career. Inclusive hiring is what makes change. Opportunity and an eye towards changing things through action is what makes change. Thrilled that Amazon has put together this playbook to start important conversations with their other creatives. This is real action and commitment and I’m thrilled to see it!”

Greg Daniels, creator and executive producer of Upload, said: “Having worked with Amazon Studios for several years, I can confirm their commitment to inclusiveness is deep, sincere, sensitive and practical. These new guidelines should encourage talented people from historically underrepresented groups to feel more confident about making a career in Hollywood.”

Establishing expectations for Amazon Studios and its creative partners, the Inclusion Policy covers four primary areas: Developing Stories and Characters, Hiring and Production, Reporting and Documentation, and Meeting Goals. The policy ensures meaningful visibility in Amazon Studios’ content and throughout all aspects of the production process — both in the stories being told and the people hired to tell them. The policy includes specific goals for Amazon Studios productions, including:

Each film or series with a creative team of three or more people in above-the-line roles (Directors, Writers, Producers) should ideally include a minimum 30% women and 30% members of an underrepresented racial/ethnic group. This aspirational goal will increase to 50% by 2024.
Casting actors whose identity (gender, gender identity, nationality, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, disability) aligns with the character they will be playing.
Aiming to include one character from each of the following categories in speaking roles, with minimum 50% of these to be women: LGBTQIA+, person with a disability, and three regionally underrepresented race/ethnic/cultural groups. A single character can fulfill one or more of these identities.
Seeking at least three bids from vendors or suppliers on productions, one of which must be from a woman-owned business and one from a minority-owned business.
Pay equity across casting, behind the camera staff and crew, and for vendors and suppliers.
Amazon Studios will provide a report template for each production to indicate whether these expectations were met, that will be submitted within one month of the completion of principal photography. This reporting exceeds the minimum standards set by the Academy, but ensures Amazon is poised to report on the diversity of their films for Academy Award contention.

Through the setting of goals and tracking of adherence to these policies, Amazon Studios expands its commitment to increasing representation on camera and behind the scenes, contributing to efforts to move the industry forward to a more inclusive future.

The Inclusion Playbook puts in place intentional practices to minimize and disrupt biases, providing specific guidance that will help everyone within and working with Amazon Studios to meet the expectations set in the Inclusion Policy. The Playbook provides direction on how to make inclusive decisions, while telling authentic stories and hiring the best people for the job; knowledge of where to go for help, including tools to make inclusive decisions; tools to identify criteria for making creative choices, leading to balanced, consistent and informed decisions; and ways to foster curiosity and ask questions to disrupt the status quo about “how things are done.”

Amazon Studios worked closely with Dr. Stacy Smith and Dr. Katherine Pieper of USC’s Annenberg Inclusion Initiative, and with Brenda Robinson of the International Documentary Association and Gamechanger Films on the creation of the Policy and Playbook. The studio also consulted with leading organizations devoted to advancing the visibility and responsible depictions of underrepresented or marginalized people, including GLAAD, Illuminative, Think Tank for Inclusion & Equity, and the Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund.

“Frankly, the outcomes of DEI work within the entertainment industry have not been swift or sweeping. In part, that can be attributed to disingenuous approaches to address the systemic barriers to entry that have long plagued Hollywood,” said Smith. “But now, Amazon Studios has created a comprehensive new blueprint that will change Hollywood by elevating those who have historically lacked access. I’m immensely proud of this new policy and I know it will be a gamechanger throughout an industry often resistant to real change.”

These Inclusion documents have been guided by the Amazon Studios DEI team, whose focus is to:

1. Ensure diverse representation of talent (in front of and behind the camera, above and below the line).

2. Dismantle longstanding barriers to success in the Industry and inspect our processes so we do not create or perpetuate inequities.

3. And tell inclusive narratives to reach a globally diverse audience.
 
Soldato
Joined
16 Aug 2009
Posts
7,861
If they're more interested in "diversity" because they want to be seen as "inclusive" but toss aside convention by having dwarf women not having beards because its too darn unsexy then you're not respecting the material and you're likely to lose your core audience honestly and who else do they suppose its going to appeal to? People who watch Bridgerton?!
 
Caporegime
Joined
9 Mar 2006
Posts
57,152
Location
Surrey
The 'core' audience that gives a crap about dwarf women with beards is probably less than 0.1% of the people that will watch this. I think people underestimate how many people are in the group that whines about stuff like that.

I wonder if the same people that think focussing on diversity (which means not hiring just white, male actors) means it'll be bad also thought the films would be bad because they removed Glorfindel and replaced his role by giving Arwen more screen time.
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
20 Aug 2021
Posts
7,046
Location
Krypton
From what I remember there was some outrage at that change from Tolkien fans, and not because 'strong woman' but because any deviation from the story Tolkien wrote isn't well received by that corner of nerdom.
 
Caporegime
Joined
9 Mar 2006
Posts
57,152
Location
Surrey
Then who do you think is going to be watching this stuff? Your average Love Island viewer? You have got to be kidding me.

Fellowship of the Ring grossed almost $900m dollars in cinemas, do you seriously think they were all hardcore fans? (let alone hardcore fans that want a 1:1 adaptation) Both my parents and my sister all went to see every film, they won't even know about dwarf women having beards, let alone care about it.
 
Caporegime
Joined
9 Mar 2006
Posts
57,152
Location
Surrey
From what I remember there was some outrage at that change from Tolkien fans, and not because 'strong woman' but because any deviation from the story Tolkien wrote isn't well received by that corner of nerdom.

Yeah there was, about Bombadil too. Which is why this percentage should always be ignored by any people doing an adaptation. Because there will always be mad people no matter what you do and they are an extreme minority.
 
Soldato
Joined
20 Aug 2021
Posts
7,046
Location
Krypton
Yeah there was, about Bombadil too. Which is why this percentage should always be ignored by any people doing an adaptation. Because there will always be mad people no matter what you do and they are an extreme minority.
Well the major difference between Jackson's original trilogy and this is that Peter jackson didn't want to interject controversial modern social talking points into the story, the complete opposite of current Hollywood.
 
Associate
Joined
23 Dec 2008
Posts
1,041
The 'core' audience that gives a crap about dwarf women with beards is probably less than 0.1% of the people that will watch this. I think people underestimate how many people are in the group that whines about stuff like that.

I wonder if the same people that think focussing on diversity (which means not hiring just white, male actors) means it'll be bad also thought the films would be bad because they removed Glorfindel and replaced his role by giving Arwen more screen time.

Have to admit I did miss Glorfindel when it came out as I liked him in the books and the animated movie which I had watched since I was probably 4! :) The 'if you want him come and claim him' was cringe in the Peter Jackson movies. Edit: I didn't mind Arwen apart from the cringe line before anyone accuses me of not wanting women in the movie

It's a shame the animated version was never complete, I preferred the 'feel' of it, but that's probably just me with lots of childhood memories.

 
Last edited:
Caporegime
Joined
8 Sep 2006
Posts
38,301
Location
On Ocuk
unfortunately when a company like Amazon is far more interested in hiring based on skin colour or sexual orientation rather than the best they can possibly get the story will always suffer.

Myself I have no issue with the inclusivity of black, white, gay, non binary, disabled etc as long as the Actors are good and the story isn't about them specifically. As in the case of Star Trek Discovery, making an entire episode around the fact said actor is having struggles with being an IT or a THEY, just doesn't do it for me. In fact I'd more likely watch an episode if everyone of those sh... actors were chucked out into deep space
 
Caporegime
Joined
9 Mar 2006
Posts
57,152
Location
Surrey
Well the major difference between Jackson's original trilogy and this is that Peter jackson didn't want to interject controversial modern social talking points into the story, the complete opposite of current Hollywood.

Isn't having women in positions of importance and power (both Arwen and to a lesser extent Eowyn's roles are massively expanded and 'strengthened' from the books) injecting modern social standards? Lord of the Ring is a wonderful story but let's face it over 99% of the characters in it are white males, there are very few women and most of the ones mentioned have tiny appearances and it's absolutely something that should be changed in any adaptation or expansion of the story to other mediums.
 
Back
Top Bottom