The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (Prime)

[Washout]

…

Just how many people did they peave off with the shows PR?

How successful could this have been if they had only have stuck to Tolkien work instead of butching it and just wanting the IP.

Given their relatively limited access to the IP (no silmarillion etc) explain how exactly they’ve ‘butchered’ the work of what is essentially Tolkien’s appendices?! How have they messed it up where I presume you don’t believe PJ did in his original trilogy despite the numerous changes he made for the adaptation (which I loved)?

Just all seems to be pitchforks and torches unleashed by YouTubers gaining their clickbait views from thumbnails and buzzwords primarily based on nothing more than:
“Just how many people did they peave off with the shows PR?”
Which when you scratch below the surface boils down to people (let’s be honest, white males) being angry at a cast being a bit more diverse than the readers of lotr thought the story was. That this isn’t a remake of lotr doesn’t seem to matter.

 

[Bigpig]

Given their relatively limited access to the IP (no silmarillion etc) explain how exactly they’ve ‘butchered’ the work of what is essentially Tolkien’s appendices?! How have they messed it up where I presume you don’t believe PJ did in his original trilogy despite the numerous changes he made for the adaptation (which I loved)?

Just all seems to be pitchforks and torches unleashed by YouTubers gaining their clickbait views from thumbnails and buzzwords primarily based on nothing more than:
“Just how many people did they peave off with the shows PR?”
Which when you scratch below the surface boils down to people (let’s be honest, white males) being angry at a cast being a bit more diverse than the readers of lotr thought the story was. That this isn’t a remake of lotr doesn’t seem to matter.

Galadriel warrior princess?

 

[Voltar]

I feel like they tried to do too much with that. There was a feeling they were cramming way too many things in a short space so it felt a bit disjointed and try hard.

The price was that not a lot actually happened. However it might just be trying to set the many scenes for different storylines in the way GoT had many at once.

The Sir Lenny Henry controversy is media fuelled BS. I thought nothing negative whatsoever of him cast and playing a harfoot and without the media drivel wouldn’t have given it a second thought.

I will continue to watch, though my expectations are now a bit lower than before.

 

[Dis86]

The origins of the Hobbits in Tolkien's work is quite diverse, coming from all over and doesn't exclude darker skinned groups, the harfoots apparently originally were of swarthier of complexion. Personally was OK with Lenny's portrayal. The harfoot accents were a bit dodgy and some of the cast were struggling to maintain that traveller brogue, for want of a better way to describe it, which was a bit distracting along with the turns of phrase sometimes having modern touches which don't really fit LOTR - which also was apparent in other areas as well.

Not onboard with the dark skinned elf - that was both obviously done for external reasons and doesn't fit with the established universe, however the actor did a credible job of portraying the character so I don't find it detracting. The elves in general are lacking a bit - rarely is their powers exposed and in LOTR every elf, even small parts, have a screen presence of an elf beyond just the costume they embody the whole demeanor, an aura as if permanently sneering but in a kind of detached way just a calm aloofness, etc. in this show they might as well be your average soap cast but in elvish costumes.

Don't get me started on the female dwarves though, it is something in the Tolkien universe which just does not convey well to screen and should be left inferred, never mind any other aspects of it. Fortunately it is, at least so far, a fairly small part which can easily be skipped past.

You, like others are missing the point. Nobody has said there can't be different ethnicities of the species within middle earth. What I'm pointing out doesn't make sense is for a small hobbit community to have every ethnicity under the sun.

Agreed on the elf however his slipping in to a modern urban accent on occasion was jarring too. Agreed also that they've completely destroyed the elven persona. Half of them are just whiny little children. Not beings of 1000s of years experience.

 

[Mr Jack]

What I'm pointing out doesn't make sense is for a small hobbit community to have every ethnicity under the sun.

True for humans, no reason at all Hobbits have to have the same genetics. Even describing these differences as "ethnicities" is assuming an awful lot.

Agreed also that they've completely destroyed the elven persona. Half of them are just whiny little children. Not beings of 1000s of years experience.

The elves here are much younger than those in the trilogy. I liked the portrayal a lot. Elrond forgetting that not seeing someone for twenty years was a big deal to shorter lived races was a nice touch.

The dwarves seem much more influenced by D&D than Tolkien (that was also true in the Trilogy but there was only really one of them there), which is a little disappointing but they were still enjoyable to watch. The dwarf princess was great.

 

[Dis86]

True for humans, no reason at all Hobbits have to have the same genetics. Even describing these differences as "ethnicities" is assuming an awful lot.



The elves here are much younger than those in the trilogy. I liked the portrayal a lot. Elrond forgetting that not seeing someone for twenty years was a big deal to shorter lived races was a nice touch.

The dwarves seem much more influenced by D&D than Tolkien (that was also true in the Trilogy but there was only really one of them there), which is a little disappointing but they were still enjoyable to watch. The dwarf princess was great.

Except their appearances are described in Tolkiens works. We know that x group from here have fairer complexions, and these guys from there have darker mops of hair etc.
There's a difference between fantasy requiring suspension of belief and suspension of logic.

I'll give a further example on the elves. They receive commendations and passage back for their outstanding military contribution. Yet this is the same group that also stands with their thumbs in their backsides whilst Galadriel, warrior Princess, solos the ice troll. They don't behave like experienced soldiers, they make no attempt to assist her. Yes they're much younger than in the trilogy but they're still very old. As the Elrond scene (which was very clever) shows.

 

[Mr Jack]

Except their appearances are described in Tolkiens works. We know that x group from here have fairer complexions, and these guys from there have darker mops of hair etc.
There's a difference between fantasy requiring suspension of belief and suspension of logic.

I'm dark haired, one of my brothers and my sister are fair haired. I have green eyes, my brother has blue. No-one is going to object to such differences shown in a group, but there's no reason that skin colour shouldn't have such genetics in a completely invented race. Yeah, if you're talking humans it does require some mild suspension of disbelief, but applying that to elves and hobbits (as you did) makes no sense.

I'll give a further example on the elves. They receive commendations and passage back for their outstanding military contribution. Yet this is the same group that also stands with their thumbs in their backsides whilst Galadriel, warrior Princess, solos the ice troll. They don't behave like experienced soldiers, they make no attempt to assist her. Yes they're much younger than in the trilogy but they're still very old. As the Elrond scene (which was very clever) shows.

It's clear that Galadriel is the better combatant in that scene - perhaps why she is commander of the Northern armies and they are not - but this is hardly different in scale to the differences displayed between heroes and ordinary soldiers in Tolkien's works. Look at what Gimli, Legolas, Aragorn, or even Boromir are capable of in Lord of the Rings for example.

 

[Dis86]

I'm dark haired, one of my brothers and my sister are fair haired. I have green eyes, my brother has blue. No-one is going to object to such differences shown in a group, but there's no reason that skin colour shouldn't have such genetics in a completely invented race. Yeah, if you're talking humans it does require some mild suspension of disbelief, but applying that to elves and hobbits (as you did) makes no sense.



It's clear that Galadriel is the better combatant in that scene - perhaps why she is commander of the Northern armies and they are not - but this is hardly different in scale to the differences displayed between heroes and ordinary soldiers in Tolkien's works. Look at what Gimli, Legolas, Aragorn, or even Boromir are capable of in Lord of the Rings for example.

Mild...definitely more than mild to rewrite how genetics works. It still doesn't address the completely inconsistent accents either. Also, you sure your brother is...your brother?

Also worth pointing out that the fellowship contains inexperienced and young hobbits who did far more than these elves! Sam and that frying pan were a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Btone]

isn't there a rich history of Elves involved in single combat against a overly powerful opponent

 

[Mr Jack]

Mild...definitely more than mild to rewrite how genetics works.

It really isn't (source: me, having a PhD in Genetics ). Although there's more differences that have accumulated over the years, the differences in skin colour come down to only a handful of genes, just as with eye or hair colour. Just as the kittens in the box behind me are ginger, tabby, and black from the same litter, there's no reason to believe that skin colour should be an ethnic marker in non-human species such as Hobbits.

It still doesn't address the completely inconsistent accents either.

Yeah, I do find the inconsistent accents jarring. It's like the producers were just like "do a yokel accent" and couldn't tell the difference between them. I blame them being American.

Also worth pointing out that the fellowship contains inexperienced and young hobbits who did far more than these elves! Sam and that frying pan were a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Dis86]

It really isn't (source: me, having a PhD in Genetics ). Although there's more differences that have accumulated over the years, the differences in skin colour come down to only a handful of genes, just as with eye or hair colour. Just as the kittens in the box behind me are ginger, tabby, and black from the same litter, there's no reason to believe that skin colour should be an ethnic marker in non-human species such as Hobbits.



Yeah, I do find the inconsistent accents jarring. It's like the producers were just like "do a yokel accent" and couldn't tell the difference between them. I blame them being American.

I'm well aware of your qualifications. As a result you should be able to tell me how frequently two white parents produce a black child, or two black parents a white child (excluding albinism). Heck, a mixed race couple producing a black child and white child is rare albeit this is describes my cousins perfectly.
A whole village of it is just not normal!

 

[Mr Jack]

I'm well aware of your qualifications. As a result you should be able to tell me how frequently two white parents produce a black child, or two black parents a white child (excluding albinism). Heck, a mixed race couple producing a black child and white child is rare albeit this is describes my cousins perfectly.

Yes, in humans you're completely correct. But there's no reason that it has to work that way. So why extend it to hobbits?

 

[Dis86]

Yes, in humans you're completely correct. But there's no reason that it has to work that way. So why extend it to hobbits?

Because it certainly didn't work that way in the larger settlement of hobbiton.

 

[throwaway4372]

obviously the elves and hobbits went to africa and brought back the black elves and hobbits, but they don't like to talk about it.

 

[Btone]

Because it certainly didn't work that way in the larger settlement of hobbiton.

How do you know ?. have you seen every hobbit in Hobbiton

 

[Dis86]

How do you know ?. have you seen every hobbit in Hobbiton

Show me a non-white Hobbit in Hobbiton in any of the films, or a mention in any of the books.

 

[chroniclard]

Peak whining reached.

 

[C Kent]

obviously the elves and hobbits went to africa and brought back the black elves and hobbits, but they don't like to talk about it.

There was clearly a race war in the Tolkien universe which one one talks about, maybe it's in the secret diaries of Sauron..

 

[Thekwango]

The ******* Hobbits could be orange with pink spots. It matters not one jot their skin colour. Off all the things wrong with this show, a few different coloured fantasy creatures is not one of them.

 

[soundb0y]

How is that ridiculous?

Skin colour isn't irrelevant at all.

And here we have a film based on the survival of one of the last isolated tribes of the amazon...oh yes, there's their leader played by Trevor Armstrong from Chipping Norton. Look at his flowing golden locks and those glistening blue eyes, his classic pale complexion. That's ridiculous. The cast of black panther being white is ridiculous. Jamaican/Irish accents that can't stay consistent is ridiculous.

Geographical and sociological isolation is a fact of history and the modern world. In fact it's only very recently with the advent of mass transport that wider integration outside of major cities has become a thing. This is reflected in literature, particularly in the portrayal of historical periods. Individual skin colour of characters can be irrelevant but in a wider group it is not.

I'm sorry that reality offends your sensibilities.

Post reminds me of John Wayne playing Genghis khan. Absolutely incredible. Didn't even attempt an accent

The Conqueror (1956) John Wayne, Agnes Moorehead (Scene) .

The Conqueror (1956)

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