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In 3 seasons Varane averaged 31 apps in all comps. That isn't good enough for a first choice central defender.

The club with the best defence in the league this season had Saliba with 49 apps (37 league) and Gabriel 49 apps (35 league).

That's how you challenge for titles.
 
Thekwango said:
You can’t build a stable defence with injury prone players.
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Yep, and like it or not, that has caused us serious issues this year. Luke Shaw is always good for some injuries and needs replacing. Varane was injured too much and Martinez was missing most of the season. We need a new first choice CB and LB this summer for sure.
 
A brief recap of our season -
  • Our worst ever Premier League season
  • Conceded a club record amount of goals
  • Ended with a negative goal difference
  • Dumped out of a relatively easy Champions League group, early on
  • Performances on the pitch have been utterly dire in 90% of games - I don't think many will disagree with this
I think most people would agree we appear to be one of the worst coached teams in the league. Ten Hag was supposed to build on last season, and he's done the exact opposite. We're going backwards at an alarming rate.

The only real mitigation is injuries - which have been bad - but he made no effort to adapt the team. Strangely enough he's done that in the last couple of games and things have improved a bit - but far too late.

While we finished 8th, the reality is we should have been much lower - the stats bear this out. The players ETH has signed have taken the club backwards, too (admittedly shouldn't have been down to him, but it was).

An unlikely FA cup victory wouldn't really change the above, although the Europa League would be preferable to nothing.

We're at a precipice now - what will INEOS do? Ten Hag's contract expires after next season. So they've either got to give him a new one this summer and decide to stick with him, or bring in their own man. They've aggressively reshaped the senior management level at the club, I very much doubt the manager will be safe. Other managers are now becoming available, chiefly Tuchel, so it's not like there isn't anyone out there.

Finances do seem to be playing a significant role as well, will they just stick with ETH and write off next season? There was talk of minimal spending until 2025/26.

Interesting times ahead, my great fear is we stick with ETH and end up sacking him in November when he can't turn things around. I am not convinced by him at all.
 
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think ETH should be given next season under the new recruitment and some players off loaded first, for one Rashford should part ways but being on such a big contract easier said than done like quite a few others
 
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ETH has to go. Unfortunately he simply hasn't done enough this season to stick with him. I can't think of any other manager who has gone from zero to hero like we are hoping he will. Every manager that endures a tough period displays glimmers of the future regularly. Other teams that are on the up are debating whether their manager can take them to the very top despite them doing very well. Do we genuinely think that ETH is going to go from what should realistically have been a bottom half finish to competing for titles in the next 3 years if we stick with him.

What the high ups need to do is really sort everything out before we go and throw any money around or appoint a manager who will want vast sums spent to build his team. We need to have a long term plan in place with the right people making transfer decisions. I would take a few years of flux to get that all sorted and set ourselves up for success in 3-5 years.

By the sounds of it, Pep might be gone at the end of next season. Klopp is gone. Now is the best time to start thinking about a positive future. I don't think that involves ETH as much as I had hoped it would.
 
have to pay him off to sack him and what I fear is new manager comes in and the same group of players get another chance we been here before
 
I think INEOS certainly give off a pretty ruthless vibe, they are driven almost entirely by data. The data will not look good for ETH.
 
C Kent said:
How much does sacking him hit your p%l margins tho? especially with zero European football
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A lot less than sticking with a manager you shouldn't and wasting another season/missing out on European football again. Especially if you are likely to have to sack him anyway in 6 months time. I doubt his pay off will have any bearing on their decision making.
 
I think we'd be wise to see how much Bayern are struggling to find a new manager. Pointless to get rid of ETH and replace him with someone who isn't an improvement.
 
fez said:
A lot less than sticking with a manager you shouldn't and wasting another season/missing out on European football again. Especially if you are likely to have to sack him anyway in 6 months time. I doubt his pay off will have any bearing on their decision making.
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so who would you replace him with ? the names thrown about none fill me with any confidence
 
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Robbo said:
Interesting times ahead, my great fear is we stick with ETH and end up sacking him in November when he can't turn things around. I am not convinced by him at all.
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uscool said:
think ETH should be given next season under the new recruitment and some players off loaded first, for one Rashford should part ways but being on such a big contract easier said than done like quite a few others
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fez said:
ETH has to go. Unfortunately he simply hasn't done enough this season to stick with him. I can't think of any other manager who has gone from zero to hero like we are hoping he will.
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My suspicion is that he stays, for now.
For a few weeks he looked like dead man walking but then something changed and he seemed more assured. I think he's ridden out the worst of it and barring an absolute thrashing in the cup final he stays for another window and start of a new season. There are a few reasons for this.

1. There is no apparent better option that could be persuaded to come without it costing an arm an a leg. Presumably FFP means that money spent on a new coach and his team is money you could better invest in the playing squad or stadium/training ground. The fans have baulked at the notion of Potter, Southgate or Mourinho who are available. Tuchel has a flaky record so the candidate list is thin.
2. If they (Ineos) didn't buy into what he's trying to do with the style of play I think he would have been gone by now. I suspect they see something in what he's trying to do but recognise the limitations of the current squad.
3. The injuries do offer mitigation. It has been unprecedented and I suspect EtH has reported on the current squad capability to play a style of football that can a) compete with the top sides b) can play an attractive brand of football that Ineos deem fitting for the club.
4. Replacing him at this stage logistically complicated. New guy comes in has no access to the players for 6 weeks as they all go on hols, international duty. Therefore he/she is effectively not able to be usefully involved in any squad shaping operations. Before you know it they will be thrown into a pre-season tour with minimal prep. In essence I think they have left it too late.

I've been more aligned with @fez in that I don't think he's shown enough in terms of tactics, squad management, talent identification, or plain likeability to warrant another term. My preference would have been a complete reset to herald the start of a new era. however the reality for us is that its the playing staff that needs prioritisation. change the manager but not a significant part of the squad and we have groundhog day. Ineos may feel that the priority is to sort the strategy and the manager then falls in or out of that and with Ashworth and Barrada not yet on board a full plan cannot be formed.

I suspect the bottom line is that ten Hag stays and they clear as many players as they can to create a better field of operation within FFP and squad make up. In that sense I become ambivalent about the coach and more concerned with the ruthlessness of the weeding out process.
 
Robbo said:
An unlikely FA cup victory wouldn't really change the above, although the Europa League would be preferable to nothing.
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I was thinking about this last night. Considering Europa League games are on Thursday wouldn't it be better to miss out on European competition for a season so we haven't got the Thursday/Saturday issue with matches plus with fewer games we could have a smaller squad which is what is likely to happen? A smaller squad with fewer games to play (league + FA and League cup games) and promote some of the youth players because they can't be any worse than some of the current first team.
 
I can see why some people want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I mean all he needs is his first choice defence available, right? Like when we had Shaw/Martinez/Varane/Dalot at the back and lost... err... 7-0 to Liverpool. Right.

Or this season, when our strongest XI struggled against Newport County. Just a one-off, surely.

MarcLister said:
I was thinking about this last night. Considering Europa League games are on Thursday wouldn't it be better to miss out on European competition for a season so we haven't got the Thursday/Saturday issue with matches plus with fewer games we could have a smaller squad which is what is likely to happen? A smaller squad with fewer games to play (league + FA and League cup games) and promote some of the youth players because they can't be any worse than some of the current first team.
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I think the additional revenue is significant, and we should be able to manage. We've had no European midweek games for the second half of this season and our form has got worse if anything!
 
fez said:
Yep, and like it or not, that has caused us serious issues this year. Luke Shaw is always good for some injuries and needs replacing. Varane was injured too much and Martinez was missing most of the season. We need a new first choice CB and LB this summer for sure.
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Luke Shaw is a strange one though. 20/21 and 22/23 he had over 30 league appearances. He likes to have 1 season where he plays everything. Then another where he gets injured!

I also think too that Newcastle popping us to Europe is a blessing in disguise. Time to get back to basics.
 
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