Caporegime
- Joined
- 13 Nov 2006
- Posts
- 26,116
I'm trying to be positive, but... fixed
The Manchester United Club Thread **Sponsored by Comedy Central**
- Thread starter Robbo
- Start date
Caporegime
To be honest, when it comes to Luke Shaw, you are being positive with that correction.
To be fair, doesn’t matter if he comes back. He’ll only play half a game or so. I’m more interested whether Malacia turns into a Luke Shaw / Mount sicknote when he returns, or will this injury have been sizeable blip and then he stays (largely) injury free again for the foreseeable.
Same for Yoro. I hope he makes a full recovery and doesn’t continually have issues.
Same for Yoro. I hope he makes a full recovery and doesn’t continually have issues.
Last edited:
Caporegime
The problem is, he is great when he plays so the expectations will never go away. Then you have to deal with the 50%+ of the time he isn't there and all you can think about is Luke Shaw.
Caporegime
Love is like that
I forget about him until he comes back. I think "this is nice" and then hes gone again.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 13 Nov 2006
- Posts
- 26,116
"Incidentally, it was Dan Ashworth - the current sporting director of United - that sold Gyokeres to Coventry for just £1m in 2021 from former club Brighton."
Isn't this pretty damning? Is he any good at spotting potential (I guess he relied on coaches?)? I suppose he doesn't have a crystal ball but didn't he also miss/ignore the Tonali thing at Newcastle?
Are these big names in management the club has hired just known for their names/hype? (Including Ineos in this) I'm sure we've seen it at work, people often get credit for the work that others have done. This is especially true of senior management, they're not the ones doing the work.
Not trying to be negative here, just discussing and trying to set expectations
Isn't this pretty damning? Is he any good at spotting potential (I guess he relied on coaches?)? I suppose he doesn't have a crystal ball but didn't he also miss/ignore the Tonali thing at Newcastle?
Are these big names in management the club has hired just known for their names/hype? (Including Ineos in this) I'm sure we've seen it at work, people often get credit for the work that others have done. This is especially true of senior management, they're not the ones doing the work.
Not trying to be negative here, just discussing and trying to set expectations
Last edited:
Caporegime
No. Every single manager/DoF has someone like this that they sold. It's impossible to tell whether a young player is going to make it or not with 100% accuracy. He had several poor loan moves while at Brighton. He's just had a meteoric rise in the last few years. I don't even understand the Tonali thing, you're criticising him for not knowing that Tonali had been gambling? How is he supposed to know that?
Last edited:
Caporegime
- Joined
- 13 Nov 2006
- Posts
- 26,116
I seem to recall reading the Tonali thing was known/out there before the bought him.
Caporegime
Got a source?
Caporegime
- Joined
- 13 Nov 2006
- Posts
- 26,116
I read it a while ago, have had a quick look but can't seem to find it again, might try again when I have more time. I could be making it up, in fairness!
Last edited:
Caporegime
Of course not. The vast vast vast majority of players that come through clubs go nowhere. I don't know how many stories I had read about players path to being a professional but they very often have tales of better players being around the youth setups. Some players come into their own in their teens. Some in their late twenties. Most, never at all.
There are few players who you can point at and say "I knew that at 23 he wasn't much cop but by 26 he would be brilliant".
FTDY.Antony is 24, he's got a couple years… on the bench to go before sodding off.
Caporegime
"Incidentally, it was Dan Ashworth - the current sporting director of United - that sold Gyokeres to Coventry for just £1m in 2021 from former club Brighton."
Isn't this pretty damning? Is he any good at spotting potential (I guess he relied on coaches?)? I suppose he doesn't have a crystal ball but didn't he also miss/ignore the Tonali thing at Newcastle?
Are these big names in management the club has hired just known for their names/hype? (Including Ineos in this) I'm sure we've seen it at work, people often get credit for the work that others have done. This is especially true of senior management, they're not the ones doing the work.
Not trying to be negative here, just discussing and trying to set expectations
A lot of his plaudits seem to be around his time at Brighton but Brighton are still doing great which leads me to believe it wasn't him.
Newcastle are not doing well either. Ashley being a tight arse and giving them a massive pot to spend around FFP helped them more than anything.
Last edited:
Antony is 24, he's got a couple years
"Incidentally, it was Dan Ashworth - the current sporting director of United - that sold Gyokeres to Coventry for just £1m in 2021 from former club Brighton."
Isn't this pretty damning? Is he any good at spotting potential (I guess he relied on coaches?)? I suppose he doesn't have a crystal ball but didn't he also miss/ignore the Tonali thing at Newcastle?
Are these big names in management the club has hired just known for their names/hype? (Including Ineos in this) I'm sure we've seen it at work, people often get credit for the work that others have done. This is especially true of senior management, they're not the ones doing the work.
Not trying to be negative here, just discussing and trying to set expectations
This is one example, and as explained, a pretty bad one. I’d say it is being very negative! Dan Ashworth is very good at his job, fishing around for things to complain about is not setting expectations.
I think it’s fine to have high expectations of him, but unfortunately developing players in the spotlight of Man Utd is very different to somewhere like Brighton, so it’ll be a different challenge.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 13 Nov 2006
- Posts
- 26,116
How do you buy a player then? There must be indicators of potential.
Also, it could always be that he's not EPL/UK quality but excels in Portugal. A bit like Sancho.
Last edited:
Caporegime
Of course there are. My point wasn't that you can't see potential, its that it usually goes absolutely nowhere. Most players that have been labelled "the next Messi" end up forgotten about outside of forum threads where someone says "remember so and so, where did he end up?"
Its very easy to look back in hindsight. Chelsea sold De Bruyne and Salah. I watched Salah at Chelsea and you can argue he wasn't given a fair shake but nothing suggested he would become one of the best players in the world.
Its simply survivorship bias. You see player X who has made it to the very top and you look at his route and say "why didn't you see this coming". You don't see the other 98% of people who had exactly the same path and trajectory but didn't end up at the very top. Perhaps Gyokeres doesn't go to Sporting under Amorim and just ends up another Championship level player. Perhaps he makes a big money move to another side this coming summer and turns out he isn't quite as good outside of a system that suits him perfectly.
There are very few dead certs in football and with the amount of data and the worldwide nature of things these days, if someone comes out of seemingly nowhere to appear at the top, chances are good that they are a massive outlier.