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adam cool dude said:
and you have assumed that you could have.
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No, I've made a point that you can't assume by explaining just how easily we could have signed them. VVD I'm certain we'd have signed though.

edit: I was too quick for your ninja edit. The only thing that changed with VVD is the fee we paid. We'd have signed him either in the January that we did or last summer regardless of Coutinho. It would have just been cheaper, by how much? No idea.
 
BaZ87 said:
I'm sorry but to say losing your best player is a blessing is simply bonkers. .
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This does really depend on context as much as anything.

Pogba is by far Utd best outfield player (impossible to compare DDG to him in regards to "world class" status) - however his consistency is a nightmare.

In a lot of cases its much better to have 2 or 3* £50m player rather than 1* £150m Pogba - and the team in general is more likely to irradicate / at the very least reduce the teams dependency on Pogba's form for the team to have good form. The club may even save on wages too :) .

Obviously Woodward could be rinsed by paying well over the odds on each player (ie paying £50m for a £30m player for instance) - but Im taking that out of the equation as its a different issue (although no less pressing given the importance of this summer).

I would take any player who busts a gut for the shirt they wear every match over someone who knows they are world class but doenst even try to show it every game, and often plays well within themselves.
 
FrankJH said:
This does really depend on context as much as anything.....
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I think it says a whole lot about the standard of your squad if you're both saying Pogba's by far your best player and from a consistency point of view, a nightmare. And if you were to get a bid of anything like £150m for him, he'd very much fall into the category of what adam was trying to describe (wrongly imo) re Coutinho - getting a vastly inflated fee for a player who's not performing nearly well enough to justify that sort of money. The point I was making is that you cannot simply say selling a £100m+ player and buying 2 £50m players will result in a better overall side. How much money Utd have wasted over the years proves that. If Utd sold Pogba and ended up buying a couple of Freds, they're not likely to be better off. The key is always how well a club buys and using Liverpool and Utd as examples, right now you'd back Liverpool to lose a genuine world class player in Salah (for example), replace them and be better off more than you'd back Utd to replace a show pony in Pogba and end up better off.
 
BaZ87 said:
I think it says a whole lot about the standard of your squad if you're both saying Pogba's by far your best player and from a consistency point of view, a nightmare. And if you were to get a bid of anything like £150m for him, he'd very much fall into the category of what adam was trying to describe (wrongly imo) re Coutinho - getting a vastly inflated fee for a player who's not performing nearly well enough to justify that sort of money. The point I was making is that you cannot simply say selling a £100m+ player and buying 2 £50m players will result in a better overall side. How much money Utd have wasted over the years proves that. If Utd sold Pogba and ended up buying a couple of Freds, they're not likely to be better off. The key is always how well a club buys and using Liverpool and Utd as examples, right now you'd back Liverpool to lose a genuine world class player in Salah (for example), replace them and be better off more than you'd back Utd to replace a show pony in Pogba and end up better off.
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I agree with you on this but Pogba needs to go he's to much trouble than he's worth imo you would have thought united would be able to pick some decent players up to replace him with he thinks he's bigger than the club at times
 
alex h said:
I agree with you on this but Pogba needs to go he's to much trouble than he's worth imo you would have thought united would be able to pick some decent players up to replace him with he thinks he's bigger than the club at times
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I wasn't arguing the rights or wrongs of selling Pogba, just referring to the idea that selling your best player and reinvesting will automatically make you stronger.
 
BaZ87 said:
I wasn't arguing the rights or wrongs of selling Pogba, just referring to the idea that selling your best player and reinvesting will automatically make you stronger.
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Yes I appreciate that Baz and the way the past transfers have gone it's definitely not guaranteed that buying 2 players with the money we got would makes us better like you say Liverpool seem to have it sussed at moment everybody seems to say Pogba is our best player but is he really on paper maybe in big matches he goes missing and doesnt do anything at all other teams best players dont go missing half as much
 
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Well thats good news. Herrera is leaving for free at the end of the season. One of our only leaders and players who consistency gives a **** on the pitch. Perfect example of the **** show of a club that we have become.
 
BaZ87 said:
I think it says a whole lot about the standard of your squad if you're both saying Pogba's by far your best player and from a consistency point of view, a nightmare. And if you were to get a bid of anything like £150m for him, he'd very much fall into the category of what adam was trying to describe (wrongly imo) re Coutinho - getting a vastly inflated fee for a player who's not performing nearly well enough to justify that sort of money. The point I was making is that you cannot simply say selling a £100m+ player and buying 2 £50m players will result in a better overall side. How much money Utd have wasted over the years proves that. If Utd sold Pogba and ended up buying a couple of Freds, they're not likely to be better off. The key is always how well a club buys and using Liverpool and Utd as examples, right now you'd back Liverpool to lose a genuine world class player in Salah (for example), replace them and be better off more than you'd back Utd to replace a show pony in Pogba and end up better off.
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To be fair both types of transfer can go horribly for the purchasing club (and nothing to do with the choice of player, or whether the club has done the correct amount /level of scouting etc)

Any club are as likely to **** up their part as much as a player is likely to fail to adapt to the new club or the EPL or any other reason.

Of course the club can lessen their risk, and yes Utd have done particularly badly no question - but every transfer is still a bit of a gamble even between EPL clubs let alone playeers who come from abroad.

Coutinho fee was certainly heavily inflated, cant believe you are trying to suggest otherwise . Of course Liverpool are entitled to ask for whatever they want, but still heavily inflated. Really feel sorry for him that this move at present looks like a bit of a disaster for him (still wouldn't touch him for anything like the rumoured £100m though, even though he was a phenomenal player 18 months ago and still young enough).

£60-70m for Neves for example (and yes that's heavily inflated and may cost even more) imo would give ore to the team currently than Pogba....IF Wolves would sell of course.....would lessen Utd's risk, but he could still fail to adapt to Utd for whatever reason (unlikely but more than possible)

IF Rashford was the only big star in the Utd squad after the summer, and everyone else where either promising youngsters or EPL players already, I really wouldn't complain.....as long as they get used to playing together quickly (performing more consistently than the current rabble shouldn't be difficult)

fez said:
Well thats good news. Herrera is leaving for free at the end of the season. One of our only leaders and players who consistency gives a **** on the pitch. Perfect example of the **** show of a club that we have become.
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Couldn't agree more

spudbynight said:
Anyone else think Man Utd will have a new manager by Christmas?
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If anyone (from management) loses their job before Woodward, it will just be more of the same if this happens. At some point the board and owners have to learn their lesson
 
alex h said:
No more freds neither lol I still think a few decent youngsters in and bring them on and stick to a plan
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The days of the class of 92 are long gone. The youngster approach doesn’t work anymore, fans and owners aren’t patient enough, and the kids aren’t good enough.
 
Mc Tominay is good enough when a manager leaves he normally left a player behind who excelled under him. Mourinho left Mc Tominay maybe Greenwood is next who knows. I would not give Ole that long personally the players are upset some if them like Pogba Mc Tominay Martial Rashford De Gea Lindelof Shaw Dalot are good players United have good players the issue has been there is all carrots for players and no sticks and no leaders. That and watching a 400k a week benchwarmer will do that to a teams morale you know.
 
Going to chime in on the Pogba debate. I'm in the "sell" camp. I think he is a toxic influence and one that should not be indulged. If you consider the teams that have finished above us and their midfield makeup its a nice contrast rather than just saying Pogba is our only world class player.

Manchester City - Attacking midfielders. Silva and De Bruyne. The latter has spent quite a lot of time injured this season but not once have I heard a negative word about him. Read this article and then tell me Pogba is better either as a player or a person. https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/kevin-de-bruyne-man-city-let-me-talk
Silva has been one of the most professional and consistent players in the EPL for five years. He works his nuts off for the team

Liverpool - Attacking midfielders. I'm not sure they really have one. Henderson, Wynaldum, Fabinho all strike me as more defensive inclined. However this has given a good platform for the team. Lost once all season and conceded the lowest amount of goals.

Chelsea - Attacking midfielders. Willian, Barkley? Sarri has tried to deploy Kante further forward but he is probably the best defensive midfielder in European football over the past 3/4 seasons.

Tottenham - Attacking midfielders. Eriksen, Alli. Eriksen is class. Often runs games and does his shift. Alli I don't like and arguably he has flat lined in his development but I don't see him criticised for a lack of effort or in the news for agitating for a move.

Arsenal - Attacking midfielders. Ramsay?, Ozil. Well they are selling Ramsay (most Arsenal fans can't fathom why) and Ozil has generally been a waste of space. A less effective Pogba.

So my point is that you don't necessarily need a star midfielder and there is a lot more to being a star than a funky haircut. I just don't think he is worth the distraction or effort. I can't see how you can compete with City, Liverpool, Spurs when you are building a team around a player who thinks he is bigger than the team. He is not world class - World Class is Ronaldo, Messi, Fernandinho, Kante, Pogba had the capability but not the attitude. Selling him would send a powerful message to any of his acolytes who think they just have to turn up to be adored and it might just save a couple of careers.

McTominay clearly isn't at the same capability level as Pogba but at least you feel like he leaves it all out there and he is only interested in playing for the team and improving as a player.The above mentioned Darren Fletcher was hardly approaching world class but he is respected and remembered fondly as a player who gave all and turned up in big games. A true pro that overcame adversity and repaid the clubs faith. Pogba is a talent and if Madrid ( or anyone else) want him then I say have him and his circus of Instagram followers.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
Yeah great plan while our rivals are pulling in 100 points a season.
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What do you suggest then cus clearly buying these so called superstars ain't working is it Pogba matic Fred lukaku Sanchez wouldn't get into Liverpool or city's team so if we carry on as we are our rivals will get further away from us our team is turning into a joke now beaten by teams who've been relagated
 
Calpol said:
Going to chime in on the Pogba debate. I'm in the "sell" camp. I think he is a toxic influence and one that should not be indulged. If you consider the teams that have finished above us and their midfield makeup its a nice contrast rather than just saying Pogba is our only world class player.

Manchester City - Attacking midfielders. Silva and De Bruyne. The latter has spent quite a lot of time injured this season but not once have I heard a negative word about him. Read this article and then tell me Pogba is better either as a player or a person. https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/kevin-de-bruyne-man-city-let-me-talk
Silva has been one of the most professional and consistent players in the EPL for five years. He works his nuts off for the team

Liverpool - Attacking midfielders. I'm not sure they really have one. Henderson, Wynaldum, Fabinho all strike me as more defensive inclined. However this has given a good platform for the team. Lost once all season and conceded the lowest amount of goals.

Chelsea - Attacking midfielders. Willian, Barkley? Sarri has tried to deploy Kante further forward but he is probably the best defensive midfielder in European football over the past 3/4 seasons.

Tottenham - Attacking midfielders. Eriksen, Alli. Eriksen is class. Often runs games and does his shift. Alli I don't like and arguably he has flat lined in his development but I don't see him criticised for a lack of effort or in the news for agitating for a move.

Arsenal - Attacking midfielders. Ramsay?, Ozil. Well they are selling Ramsay (most Arsenal fans can't fathom why) and Ozil has generally been a waste of space. A less effective Pogba.

So my point is that you don't necessarily need a star midfielder and there is a lot more to being a star than a funky haircut. I just don't think he is worth the distraction or effort. I can't see how you can compete with City, Liverpool, Spurs when you are building a team around a player who thinks he is bigger than the team. He is not world class - World Class is Ronaldo, Messi, Fernandinho, Kante, Pogba had the capability but not the attitude. Selling him would send a powerful message to any of his acolytes who think they just have to turn up to be adored and it might just save a couple of careers.

McTominay clearly isn't at the same capability level as Pogba but at least you feel like he leaves it all out there and he is only interested in playing for the team and improving as a player.The above mentioned Darren Fletcher was hardly approaching world class but he is respected and remembered fondly as a player who gave all and turned up in big games. A true pro that overcame adversity and repaid the clubs faith. Pogba is a talent and if Madrid ( or anyone else) want him then I say have him and his circus of Instagram followers.
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Well said
 
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