The Manchester United Club Thread **Sponsored by Comedy Central**

ChrisD. said:
Totally agree with this. Pogba, Sanchez and Lukaku need to go. As for the rest of the team, Young is a squad player at best, Jones is far too inconsistent and Smalling can be a liability at times, Mata while technically brilliant is simply too slow, Matic is past it etc. I think we would do well to keep hold of Rashford but there's rumours he's off and he's a through and through manc.
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Here's to hoping this Mason Greenwood chap is all he is hyped up to be. When you look back in history at the class of 92 they were not world beaters individually with maybe the exception of Scholes and Giggs but worked together as a team.

Right back is absolutely crucial though. We have been so poor on the right all season.
 
The players have the ability to challenge.

We know this because for 20 games they played very well under Solskjaer. That wasn't a couple of games, that was a third to a half of a season. They didn't become different players, they simply applied themselves in a way they didn't under previous manager(s). Within that run of results there was some excellent performances, some lucky results and some digging in - basically what you would need and expect. What is unforgivable is going back to square one the second Ole was given the job full time.

If Van Gaal says its rotten and Mourinho says its rotten and then the players demonstrate it by putting in a shift when they want for Ole then the conclusion you HAVE to come to is that its rotten. I don't want players who want to play for United, I just want players who want to play.

If all Ole does, even he is the most limited manager in the world, is get players fit and put them into a tactical pattern that allows for attacking play and they players themselves have some spirit and work hard then I personally will settle for that and the reality is that it would have got us top 4 with ease this sseason.

As it stands they can all **** off because they clearly aren't interested.
 
The players fell off a cliff after the first bout of injuries happened. We were extremely lucky against PSG. Whether it is fatigue or the players just don't give a damn it is up to the club to sort out as they get paid enough. The away performances against Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs were great tactically as well so OGS is no scrub either.
 
adam cool dude said:
The players fell off a cliff after the first bout of injuries happened. We were extremely lucky against PSG. Whether it is fatigue or the players just don't give a damn it is up to the club to sort out as they get paid enough. The away performances against Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs were great tactically as well so OGS is no scrub either.
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Yeah it was lucky against PSG in the way it panned out but we created that situation by going into the game the way we did, taking our chances and being in with a shout at the death. Compare that to Huddersfield when we knew if the team weren't a couple of goals up by half time it certainly wouldn't be happening in the second half far less going into the last 10 minutes!
 
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Yeah it was lucky against PSG in the way it panned out but we created that situation by going into the game the way we did, taking our chances and being in with a shout at the death. Compare that to Huddersfield when we knew if the team weren't a couple of goals up by half time it certainly wouldn't be happening in the second half far less going into the last 10 minutes!
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What happened at Huddersfield was the players knew the Chelsea score and were like CBA bring on the sunbeds.
 
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The players are a disgrace and Id be happy to see any of them sold. I don't see how Woodward has been shown to be "useless" but that's another argument.

Liverpool have built a scenario that is similar to us in our prime. Good players but not the absolute crazy money signings - each one made better since he came to the club, coupled with decent squad players who know their place and an overall work ethic and decent football style. If nothing else it shows that its still relevant today as it was under Fergie even in the face of crazy money being spent. That's what we need to get back to.
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It all started when Ronaldo came. Ever since then we have looked for that big money signing. Look back at the treble winning season. Yorke was bought from Aston Villa. We had Norwegian defenders who were good and solid but not super stars.

Also do not forget Liverpool got a huge amount for Countinho which I think was a blessing in disguise as it meant their squad wasn't around him and they had the money to buy VVD and Alison.
 
adam cool dude said:
Also do not forget Liverpool got a huge amount for Countinho which I think was a blessing in disguise as it meant their squad wasn't around him and they had the money to buy VVD and Alison.
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I've seen this said before and as I said then, this is madness. If losing your best player is a blessing then why haven't Utd sold De Gea years ago or Spurs Kane? It's neither a blessing nor is it a hammer blow - it is whatever you make it. Liverpool made the best out of the situation but I'm equally sure we'd be in just as good a situation as if he'd stayed. Maybe we wouldn't have signed Alisson and would have conceded 10 more goals than this season but then maybe we'd have scored 20 more goals as a result.
 
adam cool dude said:
It all started when Ronaldo came. Ever since then we have looked for that big money signing. Look back at the treble winning season. Yorke was bought from Aston Villa. We had Norwegian defenders who were good and solid but not super stars.

Also do not forget Liverpool got a huge amount for Countinho which I think was a blessing in disguise as it meant their squad wasn't around him and they had the money to buy VVD and Alison.
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It really didn't start with Ronaldo. Ronaldo was bought as a kid with raw talent as a winger and we helped turn into one of the best forwards in the world. He isn't even an example of a particularly expensive signing. Up until 2013 we had a policy of spending big on talent with UK experience and by and large it worked and provided decent value. Its been since 2013 that the signings have largely gone sideways.

Liverpool got maximum value for Coutinho sure but they simply bought smart and to a plan. VVD was a crazy fee at the time much like Rio Ferdinand was for us at the time but fast forward a few years and you can look at the fees and view them as great business.
 
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It really didn't start with Ronaldo. Ronaldo was bought as a kid with raw talent as a winger and we helped turn into one of the best forwards in the world. He isn't even an example of a particularly expensive signing. Up until 2013 we had a policy of spending big on talent with UK experience and by and large it worked and provided decent value. Its been since 2013 that the signings have largely gone sideways.

Liverpool got maximum value for Coutinho sure but they simply bought smart and to a plan. VVD was a crazy fee at the time much like Rio Ferdinand was for us at the time but fast forward a few years and you can look at the fees and view them as great business.
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Ronaldo was the most expensive teenager at the time so hardly cheap. Something like 13 million. Liverpool also wouldn't have had the money to buy VVD and Alison if they hadn't of sold Countinho. Even though they have bought extremely well.

I would hope we could sell Pogba and Lukaku for decent wedge in the summer and do something similar with a center half, right back and a couple of central midfielders.
 
adam cool dude said:
Ronaldo was the most expensive teenager at the time so hardly cheap. Something like 13 million. Liverpool also wouldn't have had the money to buy VVD and Alison if they hadn't of sold Countinho. Even though they have bought extremely well.

I would hope we could sell Pogba and Lukaku for decent wedge in the summer and do something similar with a center half, right back and a couple of central midfielders.
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Now look at what similar teenagers go for now - Chelsea lads are expected to go for what £30m with same levels of experience, and Bruno Fernandes is reportedly £40-50m from Portugal and Felix may be even more. Even then £13m was still a bit of "worth a punt" kind of money - ie probably would have made money even if he had worked as brilliantly as he did.


It DID start with Ronaldo but not when he was bought, but when he was sold - most of that £80m disappeared into the club never to really be reinvested in the team


I cant see Pogba going for the money he should be (probably be forced to take a player that's a bit "meh" in the deal ), and we will probably lose money on Lukaku


Woodward still wants the big names for corporate deals / sponsors etc - that's why signings keep on going sideways. Financial part of the club are chosing the players for the team rather than anyone with a football head.
 
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Frank, are you categorically stating that Woodward picked the signings over the head of Moyes, Van Gaal and Jose Mourinho?
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He has categorically refused to sign players for not being commercial enough that's for sure

Im also not sure how costing a business you are in charge of 1bn to pay off only 200m of a 660m debt in 14 years is business sense in the slightest. That's just pure incompetence.
 
BaZ87 said:
I've seen this said before and as I said then, this is madness. If losing your best player is a blessing then why haven't Utd sold De Gea years ago or Spurs Kane? It's neither a blessing nor is it a hammer blow - it is whatever you make it. Liverpool made the best out of the situation but I'm equally sure we'd be in just as good a situation as if he'd stayed. Maybe we wouldn't have signed Alisson and would have conceded 10 more goals than this season but then maybe we'd have scored 20 more goals as a result.
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Man Utd do not need money so wouldn't sell De Gea. Also Kane is in a different league to what Countinho ever was. Countinho's price was super inflated due to the Neymar saga and liverpool got a fantastic price. There is no doubting that Liverpool are a far better rounded team with him gone than if he had stayed. You would have never had the money to buy VVD and Alison if you hadn't of sold him so what would you of rather had?
 
adam cool dude said:
Man Utd do not need money so wouldn't sell De Gea. Also Kane is in a different league to what Countinho ever was. Countinho's price was super inflated due to the Neymar saga and liverpool got a fantastic price. There is no doubting that Liverpool are a far better rounded team with him gone than if he had stayed. You would have never had the money to buy VVD and Alison if you hadn't of sold him so what would you of rather had?
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Quickly on the Utd and Spurs points. Utd don't need money yet they refused to pay the price to get certain players in the last 2 summers and as for Kane being in a different league I think that's mad too. Coutinho was without doubt our best player in the 18 months prior to leaving (he was better than both Salah and KdB in the first half of last season) and as good as any player in the league. Maybe Utd did have the money for x but decided he wasn't worth paying the extra £10m but I'd hazard a guess that Liverpool wouldn't have ordinarily paid £60m on Allison (his fee also inflated due to Coutinho's sale) either but were willing to pay an extra £10-15m above what they were comfortable with because of such a large fee received. Maybe had Utd sold De Gea then they'd have paid an extra £10-15m on Perisic and Maguire than they thought they were worth.

There's so many assumptions in your post. Why wouldn't have Liverpool signed VVD if he stayed? You do realise that we had VVD lined up around March time, long before there was any possibility of Coutinho leaving? As I said previously, had Liverpool got VVD and Keita the summer before last then I think we wouldn't have signed Ox for £35m and instead would have waited to get him on a free last summer. We also wouldn't have been in the market for Fekir at £55m who we didn't sign nor sign an alternative to (so you'd assume that money's still available). If Coutinho was still at the club we're probably not signing Shaqiri either. Suddenly Coutinho's sale hasn't effected the signing of VVD or Allison at all and both those signings would have been for reduced fees too.

When Spurs sold Bale everybody was wetting themselves with all these football manager names that they were signing to replace him. It turned out that football manager is a lot easier than the real thing though and Spurs really struggled to even stand still let alone move forwards for a couple of years. Same story when Liverpool lost Suarez and god knows how many other times in the past a club has sold a star player.

I'm sorry but to say losing your best player is a blessing is simply bonkers. As I said, it's whatever you make of it. If you're smart with the money you receive then you can be better off but if you're not smart with the money you're just as likely to be worse off. The way Liverpool have dealt in the transfer market over the last few years I have little doubt that our side, although different in terms of players and maybe balance, would have been equally strong overall as we are now.
 
Suarez and Bale are those top top players that you are going to miss. Losing Countinho is not the same. I understand you are a Liverpool fan but he isn't or never was in the same tier as players like that. What you bought using the money you got from him was far better than keeping him and not buying those players. Liverpool do not have the financial clout of City or United and in this case has worked out fantastic for them as they bought extremely well.

Look at Liverpool's transfer history. They have only spent big when they have sold big. Torres/Suarez/Countinho. You see spikes in the following years.

My intial post wasn't even a dig at Liverpool it was actually praise at how well they have used their money in recent years. Both City and United just spend spend spend and whilst it has worked for City it hasn't really for United.
 
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adam cool dude said:
Suarez and Bale are those top top players that you are going to miss. Losing Countinho is not the same. I understand you are Liverpool fan but he isn't or never was in the same tier as players like that. What you bought using the money you got from him was far better than keeping him and not buying those players. Liverpool do not have the financial clout of City or United and in this case has worked out fantastic for them as they bought extremely well.
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As a Liverpool fan I obviously watched him far more than you because to say Coutinho wasn't and isn't a top player is crazy. In the first half of last season he'd scored 12 goals and 8 assists in less than 1500 minutes - he was performing out of this world and far better than any form Bale ever showed in his career. And you've again assumed that Liverpool couldn't or wouldn't have signed VVD and Allison had he stayed when it was almost certain that we'd have signed VVD and with just a few changes to our other transfers could have easily signed Allison too.
 
BaZ87 said:
As a Liverpool fan I obviously watched him far more than you because to say Coutinho wasn't and isn't a top player is crazy. In the first half of last season he'd scored 12 goals and 8 assists in less than 1500 minutes - he was performing out of this world and far better than any form Bale ever showed in his career. And you've again assumed that Liverpool couldn't or wouldn't have signed VVD and Allison had he stayed when it was almost certain that we'd have signed VVD and with just a few changes to our other transfers could have easily signed Allison too.
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and you have assumed that you could have. You tried to sign VVD before and it failed. When you come Southamptons way with 75million of Countinho money it all becomes different. (Southampton would have known the situation with him).
 
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