The Marvels
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Soldato
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M She U died after End Game.
Come on you know I didn't mean "Literally no women like SH films".
I think it could possibly be that men and women have different tastes broadly speaking? - Sorry if you think that's a steorotype, but it isn't it's just basic demographics. The majority of the audience for Top Gear would have been men, the majority of the audience for Towie or Love Island would be women, that's just the way it is.
Ok, so you think the SUPERHERO women ought to have been more dumply and frumpy to be more relateable? Doesn't that go against the SUPERHERO archetype a bit?
Again isn't it the point of the SH, NOT be ordinary, clue is in the name really...
Explain to me what you think a popular female SH archetype would be, because we have seen them all so far, from geek girl, to everyday woman, and of course the "She don't need no man obnoxious flawless Girl-Boss" and none of them have proven popular achetypes with either men or women.
The simple fact IMO is, that Marvel/DC and Star Wars/Star Trek/Dr. Who etc will always appeal to way more men than women no matter how you cast those shows. That's just the way it is. It's not the cast, it's the content, and the fact that men and women are different.
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Soldato
It's looking more and more like one of the main reasons this film is having such a dire box office return so is that women of all ages (but disastrous amongst young women) just aren't turning up to watch this in large numbers. Deadline released some gender split numbers with the following -
deadline.com
So the demographic breaks down into 65% men viewers vs 36% women viewers - 65% men made up of 45% over 25 + 20% under 25 and for the 36% of women it was 22% over 25 + 14% under 25 - So young people in general but young women in particular just are NOT going to see this movie, and the biggest group of people who have gone to see this being over 25yo men by a whopping 200% margin, yet those seem to be a demographic that Marvel seemingly are desperate to drop, if you look at the way the MCU has changed in Phase 4.
I mean imagine how much money this (and the rest of Phase 4) would have made if Marvel had just "pandered" to the group of paying fans which is double the size of the other, instead of the group who rarely show up or spend money
‘The Marvels’ Meltdown: Disney MCU Posts Lowest B.O. Opening Ever At $47M — What Went Wrong – Sunday Update
‘The Marvels’ is heading to the lowest opening ever for a Disney MCU pics at $47M-$55M. despite its stars’ last-minute promotion after the actors strike deal.
deadline.com
So the demographic breaks down into 65% men viewers vs 36% women viewers - 65% men made up of 45% over 25 + 20% under 25 and for the 36% of women it was 22% over 25 + 14% under 25 - So young people in general but young women in particular just are NOT going to see this movie, and the biggest group of people who have gone to see this being over 25yo men by a whopping 200% margin, yet those seem to be a demographic that Marvel seemingly are desperate to drop, if you look at the way the MCU has changed in Phase 4.
I mean imagine how much money this (and the rest of Phase 4) would have made if Marvel had just "pandered" to the group of paying fans which is double the size of the other, instead of the group who rarely show up or spend money
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Caporegime
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What would pandering to men look like, in your opinion?
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It's not helping the box office by having two new characters that haven't been in the movies before. One a supporting actor in a show that was on Disney+ and was very easy to stop watching after the first two episodes when she didn't even appear (AFAIK, it's been a LONG time) and another that was also on a Disney+ show, albeit the main star. If someone doesn't have Disney+ they won't have a clue who they are which could be putting many off.
It's looking more and more like one of the main reasons this film is having such a dire box office return so is that women of all ages (but disastrous amongst young women) just aren't turning up to watch this in large numbers. Deadline released some gender split numbers with the following -
‘The Marvels’ Meltdown: Disney MCU Posts Lowest B.O. Opening Ever At $47M — What Went Wrong – Sunday Update
‘The Marvels’ is heading to the lowest opening ever for a Disney MCU pics at $47M-$55M. despite its stars’ last-minute promotion after the actors strike deal.
So the demographic breaks down into 65% men viewers vs 36% women viewers - 65% men made up of 45% over 25 + 20% under 25 and for the 36% of women it was 22% over 25 + 14% under 25 - So young people in general but young women in particular just are NOT going to see this movie, and the biggest group of people who have gone to see this being over 25yo men by a whopping 200% margin, yet those seem to be a demographic that Marvel seemingly are desperate to drop, if you look at the way the MCU has changed in Phase 4.
I mean imagine how much money this (and the rest of Phase 4) would have made if Marvel had just "pandered" to the group of paying fans which is double the size of the other, instead of the group who rarely show up or spend money
And how many of these women were dragged along by partners?
I'd bet diamonds that not even close to 36% of Marvel's core die-hard fanbase is female.
Why is the MCU a total disaster, in your opinion?
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that old reasoning would have a minimal impact, it never stopped other marvel movies from performing for example
I do generally agree with you that the genre (broadly ‘sci fi’) will inherently appeal more to men more than it does to women.
The more relevant point that I was trying to make is that, aside from the genre, character-types appeal differently to men and women. There’s nothing wrong with this.
Nevertheless, the set up of the characters in the MCU (particularly of old) is inherently more appealing to men more than it is to women, irrespective of the genre.
I presume it’s harder to write interesting female characters in all genres… probably reflecting the fact that it’s pretty tough being a women. Characters can’t be ‘too pretty’, nor can they be ‘average’ without being criticised or written off as tokenism. They can’t be sexy, nor be wholly sexless as that’s just writing a ‘male character’ (to some). They can’t be passive or it’s not ‘empowering’, nor can the be dominating or a brash ‘girl boss’. They can’t win!
I refer you back to my comment about why Captain Marvel herself being perceived by some as boring. I don’t think she’s boring, personally - it’s actually a little refreshing to have a less bombastic lead. But I think her character is written to try and navigate these sorts of issues, in the era of more subtle approaches to empowerment. As you mention, bold ‘empowering’ characters are often rejected for being unrealistic and fake.
As for casting, Hollywood faces aside there is nothing physically ‘super’ about the casting for Hulk, Iron Man, Ant Man, Star Lord etc. There is much more room for different male physiques.
Finally, throwing a well balanced female character into an established franchise isn’t going to bring in hordes of new fans and shouldn’t be taken as females rejecting those specific characters. For the reasons mentioned, they will already be disinterested in the MCU. Why get interested right now?
Hopefully times will pass and we’ll get a balanced mix of appealing and interesting characters as the MCU progresses, learning from the recent missteps you mention.
Sorry; that was all a bit off topic, but it is interesting.
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Have any other movies included characters introduced in D+ shows as main characters? Or indeed 2/3rds of the main cast? I suspect this may end up pushing Disney to keep the D+ stuff to additional stories and keep the movies separate.
There's so much they can do, but they seem to want to keep each story of it's own. Where is Shang Chi? Who knows? What about the Eternals? What about the Giant GOD busting out of the earth that everyone keeps quiet about?
Why would that matter though? marvel movies introduce characters with hardly any audience recognition all the time.
No chance, disney is all in on 'cross platform' for the MCU. If any of the star wars movie actually get to the stage of being released it would be the same for them.
Im sure it will all be tied up in the next phase..
I
I think you're looking at it the wrong way, people should be able to "relate" to other humans in fiction if they are well-written, and have a relatable story, if you can't then that's a YOU problem.
So, if you're a woman and who feels threatened by a kick ass attractrive female SH, then that's on you I'm afraid.
I can see what you're saying abou the difficulty writing female characters, but they didnlt have any difficulty with Ripley or Princess Leia. It's about talent and great writing, not about deciding what the character looks like beforehand and then writing her. They're going about this the wrong way around, this is what happens when the suits direct projects not the creatives, when art becomes next product.
So, totally wrong genre, terrible writing, and to some extent an inability by women (that's what you described by the way, not me) to relate to other women on screen because they're too attractive - that's a lot to get over.
I think you're looking at it the wrong way, people should be able to "relate" to other humans in fiction if they are well-written, and have a relatable story, if you can't then that's a YOU problem.
So, if you're a woman and who feels threatened by a kick ass attractrive female SH, then that's on you I'm afraid.
I can see what you're saying abou the difficulty writing female characters, but they didnlt have any difficulty with Ripley or Princess Leia. It's about talent and great writing, not about deciding what the character looks like beforehand and then writing her. They're going about this the wrong way around, this is what happens when the suits direct projects not the creatives, when art becomes next product.
So, totally wrong genre, terrible writing, and to some extent an inability by women (that's what you described by the way, not me) to relate to other women on screen because they're too attractive - that's a lot to get over.
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Soldato
The movie did a full Captain Marvel movie flashback at the start which was completely unrequired, would it not have made more sense to have started with Miss Marvel and a flashback to her series, it could easily have been written in to the plot (and to me have made more sense) and brought anyone who hasn't seen the series up to date.
The Marvels, Box Office Predictions
Predict the international box office takings for The Marvels movie within its first 4 weeks of its release.
Predictions can be changed upto 9th November.
The winner is the closest to actual box office takings without going over.
Prizes
1. A Sense of pride and Accomplishment*
2. An exclusive personalised The Marvels signature**
3. One months free access to the OF of a Mod of your choice*** or Two months of access to the Pr0n sub-forum. (I know this is what you all really wanted
)
Current Predictions
My lazy ass finally got round to updating the table (I even let in the latecomers). Its all locked in now, so lets see how this goes.
Its currently at $88.5 million (Thanks Stu)
Terms and Conditions
Entrants must 18 years or older as of the 9th November
Chuk_Chuk and associates take no responsibility for any damages that occur while participating in this contest
Rules of the game may change at any time at the sole discretion of Chuk_Chuk and associates
*Chuk_Chuk and associates do not gurantee that you will achieve a sense of pride and accomplishment for being the winner. Other emotions maybe felt instead such as (but not limited to) apathy, sadness, depression, anger, disgust, fear, amusement, satisfaction, headache, dizziness, tiredness, alpha/beta male-itis, insomnia, hair loss, memory problems, stomach pain, Sexual dysnfunction.
**The existance of a personalised The Marvels signature is subject to whether or not Chuk_Chuk and associates can be bothered to make one.
***Not for the faint of heart
Terms and conditions are subject change
Predict the international box office takings for The Marvels movie within its first 4 weeks of its release.
Predictions can be changed upto 9th November.
The winner is the closest to actual box office takings without going over.
Prizes
1. A Sense of pride and Accomplishment*
2. An exclusive personalised The Marvels signature**
3. One months free access to the OF of a Mod of your choice*** or Two months of access to the Pr0n sub-forum. (I know this is what you all really wanted
)Phase 4
Phase 5
| Movie Title | Box Office Takings |
| Black Widow | $380 million |
| Shang-Chi and the legend of the ten rings | $432 million |
| Spiderman: No way Home | $1.922 Billion |
| Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness | $956 million |
| Thor Love and Thunder | $761 million |
| Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | $859 million |
Phase 5
| Movie Title |
| |
| Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania | $476 million | |
| Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 | $846 million |
Current Predictions
- MissChief - $400 million in the US (roughly $800 mill worldwide)
- Shoza - $725 million
- Vonscar - $600 million
- VincentHanna - $595 million
- C Kent - $500 million
- Nitefly - $400,000,001
- Chuk_Chuk - $400 million
- ianh - $399,999,999 (Because $400 million is already taken)
- Jokester - $399,999,998
- aardvark - $390 million
- rp2000 - $375 million
- Doodah - $350 million
- Spannerhead - $300,000,000.01
- Bigpig - $300 million
- Kyo - $299,999,999
- Stu999 - $250 million
- img - 650 (Probably talking about the Mclaren 650S which starts at $200,000)
- The shadow - 420 (About £200 for an ounce, $243)
- Something daft Already - 2.5p ($0.04)
My lazy ass finally got round to updating the table (I even let in the latecomers). Its all locked in now, so lets see how this goes.
Its currently at $88.5 million (Thanks Stu)
Terms and Conditions
Entrants must 18 years or older as of the 9th November
Chuk_Chuk and associates take no responsibility for any damages that occur while participating in this contest
Rules of the game may change at any time at the sole discretion of Chuk_Chuk and associates
*Chuk_Chuk and associates do not gurantee that you will achieve a sense of pride and accomplishment for being the winner. Other emotions maybe felt instead such as (but not limited to) apathy, sadness, depression, anger, disgust, fear, amusement, satisfaction, headache, dizziness, tiredness, alpha/beta male-itis, insomnia, hair loss, memory problems, stomach pain, Sexual dysnfunction.
**The existance of a personalised The Marvels signature is subject to whether or not Chuk_Chuk and associates can be bothered to make one.
***Not for the faint of heart
Terms and conditions are subject change
It's not because it's woke. It's not because it's woman lead roles.. For me it's because I don't really like those characters. They aren't really very interesting. Captain marvel was so bad. I didn't even finish it. It's one of the few newer ones I gave a try to.
If s film is bad it's bad. There isn't always some gender race whatever reason for it. Sometimes... It's just bad.
If s film is bad it's bad. There isn't always some gender race whatever reason for it. Sometimes... It's just bad.
Because Margot Robbie in the Barbie Movie was relatable? What about all those Romance films and Rom Coms aimed at women with "relatable" lead actress.
This is as an excuse to not have women looking attractive in films aimed at men because of the Male gaze. It has nothing to do with whether or not women can relate to the character, because I'm quite confident that the majority of films aimed at women have beautiful women as the lead character and it doesn't hamper women relating to those characters. Yet it some how matters in SH films?
As for the hyper athleticism. Thats just a part of superhero films and action flicks. If women can't relate to that, then there is no point in making SH or action films aimed at women.
Also I love the fact that apparently men are the only ones who can relate to a character that is superior to themselves but somehow Women can't relate because they are what, envious?
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Soldato
- Joined
- 29 Jul 2004
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- 7,110
I feel bad for Iman Vellani, she's easily the best character in all of this by an absolute mile, the rest of the cast are straight up garbage.
None of this ever had anything to do with promoting the interests of women at large, it was to do with their own agendas and their own insecurities. That's always been obvious. This is a tiny minority, wilfully and spitefully ruining things for everyone, and the studios were short-sighted and stupid for listening to these people and being cowed into compliance and financial suicide by them and a few lunatics on twitter.
Soldato
It'd probably look like Phase 1-3, which made about $23 Billion over 23 films, breaking box office record after box office record and was amazingly well received up overall, with a few acknowledged dips in quality.
I mean would it be so wrong to ask for more of the same, films made for "fans" initially which crossed over into the mainstream by pandering to that 70% of "males with expendable cash" fanbase, would it be wrong for Disney/Marvel to make another $23 Billion rather than losing money hand over fist with all of the "new characters" in phase 4 films, which over the course of 9 films (not inc this one) has made less than $6 billion, and most of that boosted by the strong performance of Spiderman ($1.9 Billion) and and Dr Strange ($950 Million) meaning the 7 remaining films made just £3 billion?